Has this ever happened to you?

[Strange Wings]

During the last months there were some nights I had strange experiences.
They're called 'Sleep-Paralysis'. I'll try to explain it:

The following happens: I wake up, or at least I think I'm waking up. I see clearly the room
around me. Maybe it isn't the room though. Ok I'm awake, so I might as well get up. But it
doesn't work. I'm not able to make the slightest move, even sometimes I can barely breathe. In complete paralysis I'm lying here, nothing works anymore, and that's enough for fear overcomes me. Real fear. In addition to it, there are some eerie noises coming out
from the dephts of the flat or shadows flitting by out of the corner of the eye, or I just know there is someone or more and they're coming closer with evil intentions.

Though the impressions are very real, nevertheless I realize I must be dreaming, or rather
I stuck somewhere on the way to awakening. Alright then, now I really try to get awake.
Which is not that easy and costs a lot of willpower. Like being under water and have to get all my strength together for struggling to the rescuing surface. After the definite wake-up, the strong emotional impression, the fear, may cling on a few seconds. However, what remains is the feeling of having just conquered something really big.

Perhaps this sounds like complete nonsense, but such things used to happen not only to me but even to some other people I had asked about.

What happens there to me or to others is the so-called 'Sleep-Paralysis'.
More of it: everyone gets during sleep in this state, namely in the phase of dreaming.
The paralysis is supposed to prevent the movements we're making during a dream, so we can't hurt ourselves or the one who lies beside us.
During the awakening it's coming to synchronisation-problems. The impression to stuck somewhere between to be awake and to be dreaming in fact isn't that wrong. While the conciousness itself is moving towards awake, yet the body is not nearly as ready and still stays properly tied-down.

I'm wondering if you people ever have had similar experiences as I had. It would be
interesting to know B) :) .

In that case - goodnight.

[Big Astro Fan]

I have had it where I though I was dreaming and couldn't breath. I couldn't ever call for help. Then one night I actually woke up completely like this and couldn't even breathe or move. I have never been more scared in my entire life.

[Anapan]

Happened to me for the first time I can remember about 2 weeks ago, and again about 3 days after. Scared the hell outta me. Been having disturbing dreams about something lately too, but can't seem to remember exactly what they were.

[DrFrag]

I've had it since having Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. It's not so bad now, but at its worst I would wake up and be paralysed for up to four hours. I could hear and feel and think, but I didn't have the strength to move. Not even to open my eyes. People thought I was asleep and would talk in the room and I couldn't respond. I don't know if it's the same thing though, as I was suffering extreme weakness and fatigue anyway.

One time though I woke up and none of my senses were working. I'm talking zero sensory perception. All I could do was think. I couldn't see, feel, move, hear, nothing. I couldn't even see blackness, there was absolute nothing. It lasted about 10 minutes as best as I could figure. It was like having a blank dream in which you're fully lucid. I posted this on a message forum where we were discussing bizarre dreams and someone made this comment:

There is actually a disorder of the brain that affects a persons sleep in the way you describe. I don't know what it's called, but it's basically dreaming while completely aware, but the person is paralyzed. This condition is attributed to a lot of alien abduction and ghost reports, because the person commonly sees bright lights and apparitions but are unable to come out of the 'trance' or move at all. From what I've heard, it's absolutely terrifying because you feel things being done to you, you see things, and you may even feel like you're floating off the bed or being moved, but there's nothing you can do about it.
Like I said, it's a brain disorder that you might wanna look into.

I haven't been able to find out the name of this, if it even is a brain disorder.

I've just finished a couple of years testing at a neurologists and sleep clinic. I had what visually appeared to be epileptic fits in my sleep, but brainwave scans ruled it out (showed up something else abnormal they'd never seen before). Further tests revealed I had sleep apnoea, but since I don't snore or choke and I'm young and underweight, this seems a bit odd. Standard treatment had no result. I've given up on this until the CFS goes away, since I didn't have these problems when I was healthy.

[jeffbert]

My dad has the opposite problem, he occasionally thrashes about, yells threats, and punches opponents including mom. He now sleeps by himself. ;)

Dr. Frag, I have had some gross things happen to me, but nothing to compare with paralysis after awakening. I freak out in times of helplessness, and sweat buckets when I do. I recall a Twilight Zone in which a guy was trying to remain awake for fear of dying from a heart attack during a recurring dream. I would have been overdosing on caffienne and probably die from bursting a blood vessel in my brian if that ever happened to me! ouch! :cry: :angry:

[snorkyller]

I have a serious health problem since 3 years, which could be a little bit similar to that of DrFrag. I'm totally unable to work and/or study since 2001... I was 23 and now 26... :(

The cause of the problem is in my sleep, even if doctors are unable to find exactly what it is... I had sleep tests which showed that I have no deep sleep (stage 3 and 4) and no REM sleep (Rapid Eye Movements).

Louis'74 talked about REM sleep (phase of dream) and the fact that we are paralized during it so we can't hurt ourselves. Very interresting!!!

It happened to me many times in the last 3 years. In my case it surely because of the disturbed architecture of my sleep.

If it happens to you often, maybe you have, in a night, a disturbed sleep architecture. It could be cause by very simple things like stress. So I suggest you to see that as a sign of maybe something should be improve or change in your life. Maybe you're too stressed, maybe your not in good shape. I don't know. I just want to say you to not to do like me: be aware of your health it's the most important thing. Don't see yourself as a machine which can work all the day without any rest. Don't wait the day you'll crash like me 'cause after that, it's very hard to "stand up" and get out of that...

Note for DrFrag: Some people really have CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome). But some people are diagnosed with that because doctors don't know what they have. CFS is often what they name a "diagnostic of elimination" 'cause when doctors don't find anything, they tell that you have it even if there's no evidences. It's my case: they wanted to diagnose me with CFS 'cause they were unable to find something. But I disagreed. And a doctor told me that, often, people who have sleep disorder are diagnosed with CFS 'cause doctors don't think of the possibility of a sleep disorder or didn't detect it. So be aware...! Note: I was 23 when it began and I'm underweight too but I have sleep disorder (but doctors don't know which it is yet). And I know many examples of young people who are underweight too (some teenagers) and who have a serious sleep apnea.

[Strange Wings]

Originally posted by snorkyller@Mar 4 2004, 07:01 AM
If it happens to you often, maybe you have, in a night, a disturbed sleep architecture. It could be cause by very simple things like stress. So I suggest you to see that as a sign of maybe something should be improve or change in your life. Maybe you're too stressed, maybe your not in good shape. I don't know. I just want to say you to not to do like me: be aware of your health it's the most important thing. Don't see yourself as a machine which can work all the day without any rest. Don't wait the day you'll crash like me 'cause after that, it's very hard to "stand up" and get out of that...

Yeah, that's what I'd thought about too. Stress or depressed feelings could really be the
cause of it since I had this experiences about 3 times in january. I tend to get slightly depressed through the months during winter (and I guess everyone does a bit), and there's a lot to do at work in this period of time.
When I had this paralysis in january it was about 16 years ago since I had it the last time. However, everybody reacts on stress in different ways, emotional or psychical (or both).

It's funny how You and DrFrag mentioned underweightness, cause that definitely counts
for me too. In that case it seems the body can't restore 'hidden reserves' properly and is
more susceptible for exhaustion, and this may cause those side-effects. Actually it's fascinating how the brain or the body leaves a warning like that before having a breakdown. (I must stop writing, I have to go to bed now; sorry ;) ).

Take care of Yourselves :) .

[DrFrag]

It's definately CFS, I had it as a teenager for over six years and the first four years of it were getting diagnosed. They had to eliminate every other possibiliy. I've had it again now for three years. A classic case, typical symptoms, post viral onset. Not that it helps much - they still don't know what CFS is.
I've ben tested for narcolepsy and a bunch of other sleep stuff, and I have way to many symptoms for sleep apnoea (they even did the test three times because they weren't sure it was right).
I agree there is a big problem of misdiagnosis with CFS. Lots of people have it and get told they have Irritable Bowel Syndrome, which is another way of saying "we don't know what's wrong". And there isn't nearly enough people diagnosed with CFS who get sent to sleep clinics, which is odd because many of the symptoms are sleep related.

I think I'm underweight because I'm not awake long enough to cram in three meals a day. I just woke up this morning from 22 hours sleep.

Anyway, good luck with your searching, Snorkyller. Makes you realise that experts aren't always very expert, doesn't it? <_< :)

[snorkyller]

Originally posted by DrFrag@Mar 5 2004, 01:47 PM
Anyway, good luck with your searching, Snorkyller. Makes you realise that experts aren't always very expert, doesn't it? <_< :)
No doubt about it!!!!

I was absolutely astonished :o to see how much the doctors could be so passive and negligent in some case, especially those in which they don't know what to do... :angry: :(

My problem is really atypical (as yours I think) and it doesn't resolve by itself (since 3 years...). They're clearly tired to see me, to don't know what to tell me and what to do... I always thought that it's possible to find the solution of a problem if we don't give up. But since many month, they just telling me something like : "I'm sorry we don't know what to do..." And, you know, health system is public here : so they're paid by the government, not by me... ;) :huh:

Take care!

[Latu]

Nothing like that has happened to me or at least I don't think so but I don't get much sleep at night. When I wake up in the morning I'm tired and I have a bad headache (most of the time).
One night I decided to go to bed really early and the next day I felt great and energized. I always seem to have a bad cold too. When I get the headaches my eyes hurt on the inside. Today I don't have a headache but I'm really tired.I can't see too clearly either. Have you ever heard of this? :(

[Latu]

Is it possibly I don't get enough sleep? :(

[DrFrag]

Originally posted by Latu@Mar 8 2004, 12:22 AM
Is it possibly I don't get enough sleep? :(
Could be. If you feel better with more sleep then have some more sleep. We all need diferent amounts.
I don't want to play doctor though, I'm not qualified and it's not safe for me to try.

They're clearly tired to see me, to don't know what to tell me and what to do... I always thought that it's possible to find the solution of a problem if we don't give up. But since many month, they just telling me something like : "I'm sorry we don't know what to do..."

Yeah, it's tough for both sides. People who know me consider me a computer expert, and I am pretty skilled. In all the years I worked fixing hundreds of computers I did come across two or three problems that I couldn't solve. In fact I spent so long trying to fix the problems, years sometimes, that ultimately the problems were solved by the computers becoming obsolete and replaced. It was at these times I was thankful I didn't work in the medical profession, because no doubt they have the occasional patient with such an exotic or unusual condition that they really don't know what to do. And they don't really have the option of waiting for that person to die or move house or whatever. Frustration for all. :(

[jeffbert]

I worked in electronics for 10 years, and with modular systems, we could just swap the suspect module for a known good one, and if that fixed it, we knew where to look for the exact malfunctioning part. Too bad that doesn't work with humans. I could use some new joints, most of which are not replacable; new eyes because both are very weak and one has floaters; new motor nerves... :P

But I just hate it when some #@$%C*** doctor does only so much to help. My rehabilitation specialist gives me nerve-block injections, but does not treat anywhere near enough muscles to make any but the most trivial difference. I can only get 400 units of botox, or I could have much better control over my left leg.

& I have even broken my wrist, gone to the emergency room, only for them to look at the thing & send me away, without treatment but with a bill. Then I went to an orthopedic surgeon, and he X-rayed it, but was not prepared to deal with the extreme muscle imbalance, he could not see clearly the break. He did nothing to help, but was happy to give me a bill. I only learned much later, after spraining the same wrist, that I had broken it. I do not know how it healed without being properly treated. stupid %^$#@* doctors! :angry:

[Strange Wings]

Originally posted by jeffbert@Mar 8 2004, 06:30 AM
& I have even broken my wrist, gone to the emergency room, only for them to look at the thing & send me away, without treatment but with a bill. Then I went to an orthopedic surgeon, and he erayed it, but was not prepared to deal with the extreme muscle imbalance, he did nothing to help, but was happy to give me a bill. I only learned much later, after spraining the same wrist, that I had broken it. I do not know how it healed without being properly treated. stupid %^$#@* doctors! :angry:

This is unbelievable :angry: !! I really wonder 'bout those so-called 'doctors', who are
supposed to be there for caring for the patient, but it seems they're only
caring for themselves. In that case, it drives me even more mad when I just watched some TV-doctor-episode where the patient gets cared and loved and ev'rything, all along
with competent doctors and surgeons of course, etc. Someone should tell the makers of those series that reality's looking pretty different than they think :angry: .

Adding the climbing health-costs we have to pay won't support any increase of the
world economy <_<.

[DrFrag]

I'm so thankful for Australia's health care system when I hear stories like that. Hospital emergency is free here, surgery and operations are free (as long as you're prepared to queue, otherwise you can pay for private cover and get faster service). My doctor consultations are $30, and the government pays $25 of it so I only pay $5.

Of course, we pay higher taxes. I think it's 22% for the first $5000, ramping up to 49% above $60,000.

new eyes because both are very weak and one has floaters

Is that where you see floating "blobs" on your vision, especially when you look at a blank wall or the sky?

[jeffbert]

Yes it is. & the worst part was that I thought I was having a stroke, and freaked out completely. ;) Since then, it is rarely noticable.

In regards to healthcare costs, I just happen to live near the NIH, and my botox injections, that would have cost at least $1600 per treatment (4 times annually) are free! :lol: Too bad NIH does not do the nerve block also. :(

[DrFrag]

Originally posted by jeffbert@Mar 11 2004, 05:46 AM
Yes it is. & the worst part was that I thought I was having a stroke, and freaked out completely. ;) Since then, it is rarely noticable.
I get it also, as it's a symptom of CFS. I always wondered if there was a more medical sounding name for it, but I guess "floaters" will do! I only notice it on bad days. Have you ever tried looking directly at one of the blobs and it slides faster and faster away across your vision? Ah, the fun games you can have! :D :( :cry:

;)

[Strange Wings]

Originally posted by DrFrag@Mar 10 2004, 05:03 PM
Is that where you see floating "blobs" on your vision, especially when you look at a blank wall or the sky?

I've got the same problem for about 9 years now. When I look at the sky or on a bright
flat surface I too see those 'floaters'. One of them appears slight beneath my left eye's
focal point, so I just can't fix it. If I keep trying it moves away.
I wonder if this could be removed by a surgical operation (maybe with Laser correction
or whatever they call it :huh: :unsure: ).

[Latu]

Originally posted by Louis'74@Mar 11 2004, 02:01 PM
If I keep trying it moves away.
what do you mean by if I keep trying it moves away??? :huh:

[jeffbert]

There are drops of blood floating around inside your eyeball, moving in a three-dimensional space. Try viewing the world through a fish tank. :P

[Strange Wings]

Originally posted by Latu@Mar 12 2004, 03:14 PM
what do you mean by if I keep trying it moves away??? :huh:

I mean, if I try to focus this 'floater' in my left eye, it always moves to the side, so I never be able to look at it straight ahead :( ;) . I know this sounds hard to understand, but I
can't describe it any better :cry: .

[snorkyller]

Originally posted by DrFrag@Mar 11 2004, 02:03 AM
I'm so thankful for Australia's health care system when I hear stories like that. Hospital emergency is free here, surgery and operations are free
It's similar here in Canada. Health system is completely public. But public health system isn't perfect. Good for little problem (flu, broken hand, headache, etc) but poor for more complicate problem. And, how could you make sure to receive correct treatment from the doctor?! It's impossible: You don't pay them (it's the governement)!

So, the doctors can decide how much energy they spend for each patient. In my case, they don't seem to be really interrested to spend energy for me 'cause I have an atypical health problem which is really hard to solve. They don't care that my health problem is serious and that I'm young....

I often thought that I would like to give 1000$ to a doctor so he would have the will to find the solution and really work hard for that... Anyway, I lost more then that since I'm sick. So, I could say that if the Canada's health system would be private, like in USA, maybe it would be easier for me.

Finally, I don't believe doctor are heroes, like many people think, 'cause they save lives... It's juste an image... The specialists doctors recently asked to the governement an increase of 60 000 CAN$ in their wages. They already have 160 000 CAN$ a year!!! When I see things like that, I can't imagine how I could see them as heroes...

[jeffbert]

I think a hero is one who risks his life to help others. The stupid American media painted a guy as a hero because he threw a live grenade out the window. Duh! What did they expect him to do? Just sit there while its fuse burned away and it exploded? As it was, he was not the sole-occupant of the vehicle, so now he's a hero. I do not think he thought about saving anyone but himself, when he acted. Jessica Lynch: hero, because she was captured and tortured. I do not even insult myself by watching TV news anymore. Rather than report, they feel they must interpret & analyze, tell us what to think about it! :angry:

<_<

[ozfiz]

the other morning i woke from my sleep.it was pretty early about 3 or 4 in the morning and i swear that i could hear someone saying "hello.. hello" i turned around no one was there, turned back over and it started again. at that i thought i was the boyfriend talking in his sleep like he usually does but it wasnt. i heard the "hello" again then some heavy breathing. i thought that maybe i had rolled on to the phone in bed and accidently called someone, but i hadnt, the "hello" started again.. it only happened when i was facing away from the direction i was sleeping. so i decided to slove the problem by facing where the sound was coming from. i never heard the noise/voice again., it totally freaked me out...

does anyone have any idea what this was... i was complety awake during the whole thing.


p.s just to add on a complety unrelated topic. i got my p-plates today yay :lol: just had to share that sorry

[jeffbert]

I am now preparing for a final exam on The biological basis of behavior, and reading the chapter on sleep. In regards to narcolepsy, four symptoms are listed:

Gradual or sudden attacks of extreme sleepiness.
Occasional cataplexy--an attack of muscle weakness while awake. This can also be triggered by strong emotions.
Sleep paralysis--a complete inability to move when falling asleep or waking up.
Hypnagogic hallucinations--dreamlike experiences that the person has trouble distinguishing from reality.
(Kalat, 2004, p. 280, 281).


"Each of these symptoms can be interpreted as an intrusion of a REM-like state into wakefulness... overactive Acetylcholine synapses" may be resposible for this condition, because this neurotransmitter is sent by certain synapses to the pons, which in turn, "[sends] messages to the spinal cord to supress muscle activity during REM" (281).

Source
Kalat, J. (2004). Biological psychology (8th ed.). Belmont, CA: Thomson Wadsworth.

[DrFrag]

That's really interesting, no wonder they tested me for narcolepsy. Up until now my entire understanding of narcolepsy came from the movie Deuce Bigalo. :unsure:

Incidently, they were able to determine that I didn't have it by means of a blood test.

At the moment I'm finding my odd dream states leave me with great inspiration for writing. :D

[fafner]

Originally posted by Latu@Mar 8 2004, 12:20 AM
When I wake up in the morning I'm tired and I have a bad headache (most of the time).
These are usually symptoms of sleep apnea. I'm not sure if the word is correct in English, so I precise what it is: You stop breathing in your sleep for a while :o


# Gradual or sudden attacks of extreme sleepiness.
# Occasional cataplexy--an attack of muscle weakness while awake. This can also be triggered by strong emotions.
# Sleep paralysis--a complete inability to move when falling asleep or waking up.
# Hypnagogic hallucinations--dreamlike experiences that the person has trouble distinguishing from reality.

Looks like I have one and a half of the symptoms, does that count? :o
I have symptom 1 and half of symptom 4 since I sometime have kinds of dreams during daytime (and being fully conscient), but I know they are not real ( hopefully :P ).

[DrFrag]

These are usually symptoms of sleep apnea. I'm not sure if the word is correct in English, so I precise what it is: You stop breathing in your sleep for a while

Yeah, sleep apnoea is when you frequently stop breathing in your sleep. You half wake up, your breathing starts again, then you fall asleep. It stops you getting into a deep sleep so you get tired all the time. It happens to healthy people too, but not as much so they don't get tired.
But dozens of things can cause tiredness and headaches - stress, hangovers, CFS, migraines, spinal arthritis, etc etc. A doctor would need to check this out to know.

Looks like I have one and a half of the symptoms, does that count?
I have symptom 1 and half of symptom 4 since I sometime have kinds of dreams during daytime (and being fully conscient), but I know they are not real ( hopefully ).

Probably not, there are lots of possibilities. I think schizophrenia, extreme tiredness, and some drugs can all do this too. See a doctor if you're worried or if it causes problems. Self-diagnosis isn't ideal, because there are so many things that get overlooked.

[snorkyller]

DrFrag: Is that where you see floating "blobs" on your vision, especially when you look at a blank wall or the sky?

Louis'74: I mean, if I try to focus this 'floater' in my left eye, it always moves to the side, so I never be able to look at it straight ahead* . I know this sounds hard to understand, but I can't describe it any better* .

jeffbert: There are drops of blood floating around inside your eyeball, moving in a three-dimensional space. Try viewing the world through a fish tank.*

What?! Do you mean that these "blobs" are drops of blood in my eyes?!?! :wahah:
I always saw it. I thought that it would be something like tiny dust on the surface of my eyes...

I also always thought that everybody see it and that it's just normal...
Isn't it??? Is it known by the medecine to be abnormal?

About the sleep apnea, I'm precisely thinking that that's the cause of my health problem. I always thought that since 3 years... I FEEL it. I don't need test made by a machine to know it! Unfortunately, doctors don't really believe this 'cause I'm not a typical case of sleep apnea : a snoring old fat man... I'm thin, young and I don't snore... ;) So they don't searching for sleep apnea. But I have an another sleep test this summer (I have to wait so long each test :angry: ) 'cause they saw something wrong with me sleep. They can't miss it forever... :(

[DrFrag]

Originally posted by snorkyller@May 12 2004, 12:22 PM
What?! Do you mean that these "blobs" are drops of blood in my eyes?!?! :wahah:
I always saw it. I thought that it would be something like tiny dust on the surface of my eyes...

I also always thought that everybody see it and that it's just normal...
Isn't it??? Is it known by the medecine to be abnormal?
Apparently it's abnormal. I've done a bit of reading and the medical name really is Floaters.

http://www.nei.nih.gov/health/floaters/index.htm
http://www.medinfosource.com/expert/exp4022403b.html
http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/sec...apter90/90b.jsp (http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/section8/chapter90/90b.jsp)
http://www.medem.com/medlb/article_detaill...G4C&sub_cat=118 (http://www.medem.com/medlb/article_detaillb.cfm?article_ID=ZZZAZJE0G4C&sub_cat=118)

I've never really been bothered with them. They went away when I was healthy, came back when I got sick again. I only see them when I look at a blank surface or specifically look for them. They don't hurt or get in the way of anything, and I'm certainly not about to have a retina detatch.

About the sleep apnea, I'm precisely thinking that that's the cause of my health problem. I always thought that since 3 years... I FEEL it. I don't need test made by a machine to know it! Unfortunately, doctors don't really believe this 'cause I'm not a typical case of sleep apnea : a snoring old fat man... I'm thin, young and I don't snore... ;) So they don't searching for sleep apnea. But I have an another sleep test this summer (I have to wait so long each test :angry: ) 'cause they saw something wrong with me sleep. They can't miss it forever... :(

(I can't remember if I've covered any of this in previous posts, but I'll write anyway)

I'm also thin, young (relatively) and don't snore. They only picked it up while testing for something else. Apparently it's not unheard of in people like us, just uncommon. I was a borderline moderate/severe case, with 28 choking episodes an hour. My doctor was a little skeptical of the results and I had the test again, and it came back the same. Standard treatment had no results and they didn't seem to mind me giving up on treatment. Diazapam (Vallium) helps me a lot, but it really should do the opposite since it's a muscle relaxant and sleep apnoea is caused by muscles of the throat collapsing. Another mystery.
Personally I don't think I have sleep apnoea, at least not as a primary condition. I have way too many symptoms (50+) and urine bioanalysis indicates Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (which also accounts for all of the symptoms). I slept 22 hours straight last night. That's just not right. I wake up with severe abdominal and lower back pain, like I've been doing sit-ups in my sleep. I set up an infrared video camera and recorded my sleep several times but I didn't see anything strange.

I know what you mean about long waits for sleep testing. My appointments were typically 3-6 months apart. From the initial test to the end of my treatment was over two years. I hope you can get your proper tests done, then at least you'll be able to rule it out or prove the doctors wrong.

A quick question - do you get delayed joint and muscle pain after excercise? Say, about two days afterwards?

[fafner]

Originally posted by DrFrag@May 12 2004, 07:00 AM
I think schizophrenia, extreme tiredness, and some drugs can all do this too.
Hmmm... that's not drugs ( I KNOW it isn't ;) )
Since my extrem sleepiness rarely last for more than 15-30 minutes it should not be extreme tiredness.
What's left? Let's see...
<counting very carefully on 3 fingers>
... schizophrenia?! N-no! I mean I'm not of course! Fafner is not a false name for another personality, it's my real name of course! :unsure: If it was not it would mean I'm sharing several personnalities, it would mean schizophrenia and I'm not!
Oh well, I see I am not convincing anyone here, including myself :wacko: It must be time to see a doctor, maybe even to go back to that establishment with "men in white" everywhere from where I broke out some time ago :P

[snorkyller]

DrFrag: I was a borderline moderate/severe case, with 28 choking episodes an hour.
[...]
Personally I don't think I have sleep apnea, at least not as a primary condition. I have way too many symptoms (50+) and urine bioanalysis indicates Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

They thought about the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome for me. They finaly said that I can't have it because of the lack of symptoms except for fatigue and some others. They told me that CFS often begins with a health problem, often viral, which 'cause fatigue. The person have difficulty to get out of that and the fatigue becomes chronic, which cause the apparition of many others symptoms (because of the tiredness of the body).

Do you think it could be your case DrFrag? Can you remember being sick before the apparition of CFS? (I don't know, someting like really a big flu).

Another thing... Even if you don't have sleep apnea, I think that having "28 choking episodes an hour" certainly couldn't help you in your sleep. It can give you a less deep sleep. So if you don't have enough deep sleep, you may have to sleep longer (more hours). No?

I never had muscle pain for 2 days after an exercice. It exactly was one of the things that made the doctors think that I can't have CFS...

DrFrag: Diazapam (Vallium) helps me a lot, but it really should do the opposite since it's a muscle relaxant and sleep apnoea is caused by muscles of the throat collapsing. Another mystery.
[/b]

Exactly the same for me!!! :o :wahah: But for me it was clonazepam... No only it's a muscle relaxant but it's an anti-convulsion. It was created to treat epilepsy and now it's used for other thing like anxiety. This drug is a mystery for me... Why is it helping me since 3 years while they tried many other similar drugs which doesn't helped. I often have convulsions while I sleep which wake me up ; more and more often after 4:00. So I wonder if it's because the effect of the drug is ending (7 hours). I wonder why I have such convulsion while sleeping.

Unfortunately, doctors doesn't seems to answer such questions... They seem to think that only the machine (the tests...) can aswer everything. They don't seems to think that they can find many thing by themself...

Anyway, sorry for talking so much about that, I'm just frustrated that I could do nothing... :(

[DrFrag]

Originally posted by fafner@May 13 2004, 02:41 AM
... schizophrenia?! N-no! I mean I'm not of course! Fafner is not a false name for another personality, it's my real name of course! :unsure: If it was not it would mean I'm sharing several personnalities, it would mean schizophrenia and I'm not!
You're thinking of Multiple Personality Disorder. That's different from Schizophrenia.

snorkyller:They thought about the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome for me. They finaly said that I can't have it because of the lack of symptoms except for fatigue and some others. They told me that CFS often begins with a health problem, often viral, which 'cause fatigue. The person have difficulty to get out of that and the fatigue becomes chronic, which cause the apparition of many others symptoms (because of the tiredness of the body).

Yeah, it's a tricky one because it's a syndrome. Usually the diagnosis is made by eliminating everything else. The first time I had it, it took four years to get a diagnosis. :cry:

Do you think it could be your case DrFrag? Can you remember being sick before the apparition of CFS? (I don't know, someting like really a big flu).

Yeah, a severe flu went around at work in early February 2001. People were off work for up to two weeks. I got it and never really recovered. I went into a decline and was unable to work by June.
I also had it as a teenager from 1990-1996, but the onset was very gradual and not triggered by a viral infection. I had a slightly different set of symptoms then (more abdominal pain, no headaches). It's thought there may be six or seven different strains. Most people I've known had it triggered by Glandular Fever.

Another thing... Even if you don't have sleep apnea, I think that having "28 choking episodes an hour" certainly couldn't help you in your sleep. It can give you a less deep sleep. So if you don't have enough deep sleep, you may have to sleep longer (more hours). No?

Perhaps, but then more sleep should make me feel more rested. When they did the first test I slept 13 hours and they thought that was unusually long, so I'm not sure people with Sleep Apnoea sleep longer to make up for shallow sleep. Also, I wake up exhaused whether I get 8 or 28 hours sleep. The difference is if I don't get enough sleep I end up with massive abdominal pain.

I never had muscle pain for 2 days after an exercice. It exactly was one of the things that made the doctors think that I can't have CFS...

You saw where I was coming from! :D It's an odd delayed symptom that most people with CFS get but I've never heard of it outside of CFS, so it can be a good indicator.

Exactly the same for me!!! But for me it was clonazepam... No only it's a muscle relaxant but it's an anti-convulsion. It was created to treat epilepsy and now it's used for other thing like anxiety. This drug is a mystery for me... Why is it helping me since 3 years while they tried many other similar drugs which doesn't helped. I often have convulsions while I sleep which wake me up ; more and more often after 4:00. So I wonder if it's because the effect of the drug is ending (7 hours). I wonder why I have such convulsion while sleeping.

That is so weird. In 2002 I was really sick and had convulsions in my sleep every night. Enough to wake me up or accidently hit my wife in my sleep. The paramedics immediately thought it was epilepsy. They shot me up in both legs with medazalan and it still wouldn't stop. But the weird thing is I could stop it by standing or sitting up or concentrating really hard. Obviously I couldn't do any of these things while asleep! They gave me an EEG in hospital which came back abnormal but nothing they'd seen before. It definately wasn't epilepsy - you can't stop that by concentrating. I got put on the waiting list for the sleep clinic, and in the meantime I went on diazepam (which is very similar to clonazepam). It helped a lot but I only take it once a week to avoid building up a tolerance or dependence. So whenever I want to have a good day. :D
I moved house and my health improved enough that I didn't notice any convulsions. Then while I was being tested by the sleep clinic they accidently picked up Sleep Apnoea. They decided they'd better treat that before doing any more testing so it wouldn't complicate things. That saga went on for two years until I gave up, so I'm still no better off. They couldn't continue the testing for the convulsions with Sleep Apnoea still showing up.
One thing I know for sure - I never had this problem in the years that I didn't have CFS. So I'm not too worried - when the CFS goes I'm positive the sleep problems will go with it.

There's still the unsolved mystery of the convulsions though. It's not listed as a symptom of CFS or Sleep Apnoea. I suspect it's made worse during times when my general health is worse, but that doesn't tell me much.

Hey, have you had an EEG? (brain scan)

Unfortunately, doctors doesn't seems to answer such questions... They seem to think that only the machine (the tests...) can aswer everything. They don't seems to think that they can find many thing by themself...

Anyway, sorry for talking so much about that, I'm just frustrated that I could do nothing...

It's good to vent. :) When you have something complicated the doctors don't have time for you. It takes a lot of research that is usually left up to the patient. :(

[Starlight]

Hi Louis 74,

I've had some experiences when I wake up in the middle of the night and turn my light on and then get up and walk around in the house, and then strange things start to happen and then I am dreaming that I wake up, I am not really awake. So I wake up again- except that time, even though it seems real, it is not. Then I wake up again for real, and the light is real, and sound and feeling are real.

I think I may also have had sleep paralysis before too where I can't get up when I want to.

Starlight

[Strange Wings]

Hi Starlight

Yeah, these are scary experiences we're going through. Not to know what's real and the inability to move and even to breathe sometimes really evokes unpleasant feelings.
It seems like you went through a very intense wake/dream experience; if I understand you correctly you were able to move but you couldn't tell if you're dreaming or awake.

I can't remember if that ever has happened to me, but at the beginning of that year I went through some sleep-paralyses which really nailed me to the bed. I heard strange noises, saw moving shadows and heard the sound of my own breath. I guess those paralyses always had last for about ten seconds till I finally managed to wake up.
Fortunately I've had quiet nights for the last five months yet.

I remember a horrible case of a woman who went through a surgical intestine operation
by full conciousness. She was filled with anaestetics so she couldn't move and not even speak to tell the surgeons that she's awake. She saw and witnessed her own operation and felt all the pain of it.
Somehow the anaestetics hadn't reached that parts of her brain which controlled the nerves and her conciousness.
After that operation she had to go through a lot of psycho-therapies to digest that trauma.
:(

[jeffbert]

I've had some experiences when I wake up in the middle of the night and turn my light on and then get up and walk around in the house, and then strange things start to happen and then I am dreaming that I wake up, I am not really awake. So I wake up again- except that time, even though it seems real, it is not. Then I wake up again for real, and the light is real, and sound and feeling are real.

I think I may also have had sleep paralysis before too where I can't get up when I want to.

Please forgive me for this, I am not trying to make fun of your condition:

I remember a line from Stanly in and old Laurel & Hardy film. He was making an excuse for sleeping on the job. It went something like, "Well, Ollie, I was dreaming that I was awake, but when I woke up, I found me self asleep." :lol: While I found that funny, your description was terrifying. I have more physical problems than I can keep track of, most are ever-present, but a few seem to lie in wait, hoping to strike when I least expect it, or am least able to deal with it. :angry: Both of my hips are bad, one is bone against bone, the other is just plain painful, whether it is arthritic, I do not know. My left arm and leg exhibit involuntary movement, much of which is simply annoying, but sometimes it is quite serious. But the sheer terror of awakening unable to move, that would freak me out. Have you gotten used to it? or does it freak you out every time? :huh:

[snorkyller]

Dr Frag:* * Hey, have you had an EEG? (brain scan)

They made an EEG while I was sleeping in each of my 2 sleep test I had (I had none when I'm awake). They saw in the EEG that my sleep have a strange and abnormal structure. No deep sleep, no rem sleep and too much alpha waves... What is strange is that they just send the results on a paper with these abnormal things listed to my doctor, but they didn't do nothing to find why I have it... I really can't understand that... :angry: :(

So if I understood you well, you had convulsions while asleep but the convulsions remained there after you awaked??? Strange...

For me, the convulsions stop when I wake up. I have the feeling that it's like an alarm triggered to awake me... as if something is going wrong when I'm asleep... as if my brain detect something that is dangerous for me. So it make me wake up by the convulsions.

I can't understand why the doctors don't wonder about these convulsions. It's surely because they never saw it by themself or by a test. Of course 'cause it occurs only while I'm asleep!!! And I didn't have it while the sleep test... Not surprising: I can have it once a week. So in a sleep test, there's a big chance I wouldn't have it. But if I say them that "I start to shake while I'm asleep, and that I can't control that", don't they can jusr believe me?! Of course not... They don't give a sh*t of what I say :angry: They only trust the machine used to make the tests.

Dr Frag:** There's still the unsolved mystery of the convulsions though. It's not listed as a symptom of CFS or Sleep Apnoea

Strange, because I made many searchs on the web and I saw many times that people who have apnea wake up "with a start". I talked to some of them in a forum (www.sleepnet.com) and many told me that it's exactly like having convulsions.

[DrFrag]

snorkyller: They made an EEG while I was sleeping in each of my 2 sleep test I had (I had none when I'm awake). They saw in the EEG that my sleep have a strange and abnormal structure. No deep sleep, no rem sleep and too much alpha waves...

That is strange. They probably don't know what to do. I did a bit of Google searching and I found this:

It is documented that over 70 percent of fibromyalgia patients have alpha waves intruding into the delta wave sleep hundreds of times during the night, compared to only 10-15 percent of those without this disorder. This intrusion can startle a person awake, cause constant tossing and turning, muscle spasms, or opening of the eyes. After time, it keeps a person from falling into a deep sleep, or REM.

Not suggesting you have fibromyalgia, but it sounds like there's a connection between the alpha waves and muscle spasms. And an absence deep sleep will leave you exhausted.
My EEG was done while awake. I can't remember what the report said, but they made specific reference to alpha waves. They testing me in lots of states, like eyes open/closed, flashing light goggles, etc.

snorkyller: So if I understood you well, you had convulsions while asleep but the convulsions remained there after you awaked??? Strange...

When it was bad, it would start a few seconds before falling asleep and last a few minutes after waking up. An ambulance was called once when it lasted an hour after waking up. I had my wife watching while I was asleep, and she said I didn't ever convulse the entire night, but anything from 10 minutes to 5 hours on a bad night.

When you fall asleep, your brain shuts down in stages. ie, your memory shuts down before your consciousness does, which is why people don't remember falling asleep.
Anyway, what I think what was happening was the convulsions were starting as I reached a semi-conscious stage. I actually knew I was about to fall asleep in a few seconds because the convulsions would start. So maybe it was to do with a specific part of my brain. It would also explain how I could stop it by concentrating - that's extra brain activity. Probably beta or higher, but I'm no expert. I wish there was more information around on brain wave problems.

[snorkyller]

So maybe it was to do with a specific part of my brain. It would also explain how I could stop it by concentrating - that's extra brain activity. Probably beta or higher, but I'm no expert. I wish there was more information around on brain wave problems.

It seems logical to me...

It is documented that over 70 percent of fibromyalgia patients have alpha waves intruding into the delta wave sleep hundreds of times during the night, compared to only 10-15 percent of those without this disorder. This intrusion can startle a person awake, cause constant tossing and turning, muscle spasms, or opening of the eyes. After time, it keeps a person from falling into a deep sleep, or REM.

Yeah???? I didn't know that alpha waves intrusion could be significant... The first sleep doctor said that it was abnormal so he sent me to a neurologist who said that it's not so abnormal after all and he finally do as if the alpha waves intrusion wasn't there...

I don't now why I don't have deep sleep. But I know that I'm always tired. And to me it's logical to be tired if you don't have deep sleep (!!!). And it seems to me that when you didn't find anything and you don't know what to do since 3 years (my doctors) and you finaly find an abnormality like alpha waves intrusion, you should automatically search about that and consider this abnormality as a potential cause of the absence of deep sleep.... Well, it's not the case... I would understand my doctors... They always say that they can't do nothing 'cause everything is normal in my test, but when they find something abnormal, they ignore it...

About the fibromyalgia (or CFS), I'm happy that my doctors didn't thought that I could have it : I would have never accepted that 'cause it's a "syndrome"... You know: a syndrome is something that doctors are unable to explain. So when you have it, doctors surely always say to you things like : "We can't do anything. We can't help you 'cause you have a syndrome". So, you still always sick but nobody can help you as if the entire health system wasn't there...
Do you feel sometime like that Dr Frag, since you have CFS?

But... I'm pretty much in that situation. In fact, I'm feeling pretty much like that... even if I have not a syndrome... Well, I think that "having nothing" when you're sick is not a better situation, probably 'cause I don't know what the hell I have...

[DrFrag]

Originally posted by snorkyller@May 15 2004, 06:42 AM
About the fibromyalgia (or CFS), I'm happy that my doctors didn't thought that I could have it : I would have never accepted that 'cause it's a "syndrome"... You know: a syndrome is something that doctors are unable to explain. So when you have it, doctors surely always say to you things like : "We can't do anything. We can't help you 'cause you have a syndrome". So, you still always sick but nobody can help you as if the entire health system wasn't there...
Do you feel sometime like that Dr Frag, since you have CFS?
Absolutely. There's a bunch of things you can try to relieve symptoms, but it's pretty much a waiting game to get better. No known cause, no known cure. At least there aren't as many doctors around now who say it doesn't even exist.

IMO, not having a diagnoses is worse. I hope things work out for you.

http://www.sleepnet.com/rest3/messages/618.html
http://www.sleepnet.com/rest3/messages/106.html

From what I can find, it sounds like not much is known about alpha wave intrusion except that it disrupts the sleep. I can't even find out if it's a condition or a symptom. The clonazepam seems like a really good option though, AFAIK it's very safe as far as drugs go. Another possibility may be low-dose antidepressants, but of course I am no doctor (despite my username!).

[jeffbert]

Robots just don't know how good they have it. Why would any robot want to be human? Just look at the kinds of diseases and other things that can go wrong, and the fixes if any, are themselves far from perfect. My dad was taking medication to treat one thing, but it ended up causing him to temporarily loose vision in one eye. :angry: Robots just change some software variable or replace some part, and bang! As good as new!

In my case, when I was a teen, friends were saying that maybe I could have bionic arm or some such nonsense! If only it were so easy!

And what about the X-men? All these people have conditions that make them unable to blend into society, but they have these super powers to compensate! If only there were a rule like that.

Rule: Anybody who has a physical impairment must also have some special power to compesate.

Oh, to be a fictional character! :P I do not think I would like to be like Banf Nightcrawler, but being like Wolverine would be ok. :D

[snorkyller]

Thanks for your link Dr Frag, I appreciate...

Can you tell me what "IMO" and "AFAIK" mean? :huh: Maybe it's something I didn't catch yet in the english language :)


Yeah jeffbert.... I really wanna be a robot 'cause I'm a programmer-analyst... So, I could fix myself!!! :P B) I would be sure that I would be fixed quickly 'cause I'm quite good and I don't give up until the problem is fixed (unlike the doctors :angry:)

[Danny]

IMO = In My Opinion.
AFAIK = As Far As I Know

they are two of a multitude of Acronims commonly used in IMs and BBs netwide :)

[DrFrag]

I just slept 25 hours straight! Not my longest sleep, but I think it's the first time I've slept a full calendar day - midnight to midnight. I fell asleep around 11:30pm Saturday and woke up 12:30am Monday.
And that doesn't count my Saturday evening nap in front of the TV. :D

[Strange Wings]

Originally posted by DrFrag@May 16 2004, 07:05 PM
I just slept 25 hours straight! Not my longest sleep, but I think it's the first time I've slept a full calendar day - midnight to midnight. I fell asleep around 11:30pm Saturday and woke up 12:30am Monday.
And that doesn't count my Saturday evening nap in front of the TV. :D
Comforting to know that we're not the only country with a lousy TV programm on saturday
evenings :) .

How do you feel after such a long time of sleep? I mean, do you feel refreshed or do you still feel tired afterwards?
I'm asking that because I used to have nights where I can sleep 9-10 hours without any interruption but after waking up I still feel tired and drowsy :unsure: .

[jeffbert]

My problem with sleeping is finding a 'comfortable' position when lying in bed. I sleep on my left side, but cannot often fall asleep in that position. I roll over a couple times, trying to satify all my bad joints, etc., but all too often must sacrifice one pain in order to supress others. :angry:

[DrFrag]

Originally posted by Louis'74@May 17 2004, 04:48 AM
Comforting to know that we're not the only country with a lousy TV programm on saturday
evenings :) .

How do you feel after such a long time of sleep? I mean, do you feel refreshed or do you still feel tired afterwards?
I'm asking that because I used to have nights where I can sleep 9-10 hours without any interruption but after waking up I still feel tired and drowsy :unsure: .
Actually I was watching a tape of Braveheart. :unsure:

I didn't feel too bad after I woke up. I took some diazepam before going to sleep which really helps my muscle pain. Usually it takes 6-8 hours off my sleeping time as well, so 25 hours was a bit unexpected. It's only a muscle relaxant, not a sedative.
I think I was just exhausted after helping my mum with a bathroom renovation; we had to take down a brick wall.

[fafner]

Now I think I have a small idea of what you felt Louis'74.
I had never had this, and during the last week-end, I experienced no less than THREE sleep paralysis! They happened each time when I was falling asleep. The first two happened during saturday night and just gave me the feeling of not being able to breath, I just suddenly woke up. But the last one, 2 nights later, left me paralysed for about 2 seconds, just enough to have no doubt I couldn't move! :wacko:
Nothing happened last night, but now I have a kind of "background fear" when I try to sleep :huh:

[Strange Wings]

Originally posted by fafner@Jun 2 2004, 05:45 PM
Now I think I have a small idea of what you felt Louis'74.
I had never had this, and during the last week-end, I experienced no less than THREE sleep paralysis! They happened each time when I was falling asleep. The first two happened during saturday night and just gave me the feeling of not being able to breath, I just suddenly woke up. But the last one, 2 nights later, left me paralysed for about 2 seconds, just enough to have no doubt I couldn't move! :wacko:
Nothing happened last night, but now I have a kind of "background fear" when I try to sleep :huh:
:lol: Welcome to our little involuntary passions.
I wouldn't be too worried about those paralyses while waiting for sleep. They only seem to appear in stress situations. The last time I've had it was somewhere in january when I had a really tight work schedule, and it had lasted for about 10 seconds (I think it was in the wakeup-phase).
Since then I didn't noticed the slightest sign of any upcoming paralysis.

Snorkyller mentioned in one of his earlier posts in this thread that sleep-paralyses may depend on one's current conditions such like physical exhaustions, states of mind, etc.
I think there's a lot of truth in there.

[fafner]

Originally posted by Louis'74@Jun 2 2004, 09:08 PM
I wouldn't be too worried about those paralyses while waiting for sleep. They only seem to appear in stress situations.
I'm not really afraid of anything in particular, but when it happens it is not exactly pleasant if you see what I mean ;) I'm afraid of it the same way when I am waiting my turn at the dentist, when it could happen at any moment :wacko:
About the stress situation, I wonder how I could be stressed during a 4-days week-end! Why not monday or tuesday of a normal week? :D

[snorkyller]

Originally posted by fafner+Jun 3 2004, 05:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (fafner @ Jun 3 2004, 05:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Louis'74@Jun 2 2004, 09:08 PM
I wouldn't be too worried about those paralyses while waiting for sleep. They only seem to appear in stress situations.
I'm not really afraid of anything in particular, but when it happens it is not exactly pleasant if you see what I mean ;) I'm afraid of it the same way when I am waiting my turn at the dentist, when it could happen at any moment :wacko:
About the stress situation, I wonder how I could be stressed during a 4-days week-end! Why not monday or tuesday of a normal week? :D [/b]
Strange sleep events like those "sleep paralyses" doesn't occurs only in simple stress situation (I mean stress of everyday)... Sometimes you wonder why it occured 'cause you didn't feeling stressed at the moment and in the previous days. It was my case... But there are things only subconscious feels. Conscious didn't feels it. So you didn't "feel" it consciously but it affecting you anyway... I'm not saying you're affected by something... I just explain something which could happens.

Something Louis'74 wrote his really interresting:
<!--QuoteBegin--Louis'74

More of it: everyone gets during sleep in this state, namely in the phase of dreaming.
The paralysis is supposed to prevent the movements we're making during a dream, so we can't hurt ourselves or the one who lies beside us.
During the awakening it's coming to synchronisation-problems. The impression to stuck somewhere between to be awake and to be dreaming in fact isn't that wrong. While the conciousness itself is moving towards awake, yet the body is not nearly as ready and still stays properly tied-down.
[/quote]

Awakening while in the REM sleep phase (phase of dreaming) is abnormal. I don't say it's a problem, I just say it's not "supposed" to happens in a good sleep. Sometimes, in a night, we can have a disturbed sleep achitecture. Then, you may not have any deep sleep, you may awake often, etc.... and you may awake while in REM sleep. I think it's logical...

But why could we get bad sleep architecture? Because of things like stress but I think it could be also because of the state of the subconscious too. When you're sleeping, subconscious is very active, at the opposite of the conscious (since you're sleeping).

Sometimes, there are situations which you don't like but you accept it 'cause you feel that you don't have the choice too. Example: Your boss get you really stressed but you can't do nothing 'cause it's your boss. By the days, you're becoming accustomed to these situations then it's as if it disappeared and there's no problem at all. But it's not really right: you're subconscious continue to be hurted by this situation... Since subconscious is active when you sleep, it can affect your sleep ; you may not even feel it. You become more tired ; it's like an alarm triggered by the subconscious to tell you that something is wrong but you're ignoring it. If you continue to ignore it, many other things may happens...

Many doctors explained me that in that moment, an hormone called "cortisol" is much more secreted which cause the adrenaline (or epinephrine) to be more and more released. They told me that this state can cause many symptoms and problem which make the body "imbalanced"... That happened to me. I don't know why ; I don't know the 'cause but I don't get any deep sleep since that time.

When strange things like "sleep paralyses" happens, I think it may be a good idea to think about "how you live"....

[DrFrag]

I get paralysed in my dreams. Like I dream that I try to walk but I just fall over and can't move. I think it's because my legs are so weak in real life that I end up dreaming about it. :(

[dragon_child888]

Hope im not buting in or anything and i dont know if this is unusual but in the middle of the night i some times sleep walk and do crazy or just plain wierd things that i have no memory of the next morning. Example: one night i had goten up from bed (downstairs) walked up two sets of stairs and gone into the loungeroom avoding all our furniture. i walked up to my mum and asked her to come downstairs with me. (this whole time i was asleep) now heres somethig wierd (i think) this whole time i actualy had my eyes open even though i was asleep, anyway, so i took her back downstairs and i got into bed i then told her to do the fairy thing (WDF???) and she was asking me what it was and i was just repeating that. anyway the 'fairy thing' had something to do with my diary which has pics of fairies on it. anyway, i stoped telling her to do the fairy thing and said this: "never mind, we are all going to die anyway." and with that my mum left and i layed back down and went back to sleeping. :wacko:

yes....and is it just me or can other people do this too: i can defocus my eyes. everything goes fuzzy. i am yet to meet anybody else that can do this. :wacko:

and something else, i have a constant beeeeep going on in my ear. :wacko: sombody once told me it was tinitis or something... :huh:

[fafner]

Originally posted by dragon_child888+Jun 8 2004, 12:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dragon_child888 @ Jun 8 2004, 12:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>yes....and is it just me or can other people do this too: i can defocus my eyes. everything goes fuzzy. i am yet to meet anybody else that can do this. :wacko:
[/b]
What do you mean by "defocusing"? Do you mean focus as the optical meaning? Or you can look in 2 different directions like chameleons? :o

<!--QuoteBegin--dragon_child888@Jun 8 2004, 12:05 PM

and something else, i have a constant beeeeep going on in my ear. :wacko: sombody once told me it was tinitis or something... :huh:[/quote]
I have something like this, but I don't hear a beep, it's more like ssshhhhh ( sorry, I'm out of vocabulary here :D ). I think the French word for that is "accouphène", sorry, I didn't found the word in any dictionnary, I don't have any English/French medical dictionnary :P Usually it is caused by listening music too loud with a headset, but it is not my case as I almost never use such things ( in fact I hate them :angry: ).

[dragon_child888]

Originally posted by fafner+Jun 9 2004, 02:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (fafner @ Jun 9 2004, 02:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -dragon_child888@Jun 8 2004, 12:05 PM
yes....and is it just me or can other people do this too: i can defocus my eyes. everything goes fuzzy. i am yet to meet anybody else that can do this.* :wacko:

What do you mean by "defocusing"? Do you mean focus as the optical meaning? Or you can look in 2 different directions like chameleons? :o

<!--QuoteBegin--dragon_child888@Jun 8 2004, 12:05 PM

and something else, i have a constant beeeeep going on in my ear.* :wacko: sombody once told me it was tinitis or something...* :huh:
I have something like this, but I don't hear a beep, it's more like ssshhhhh ( sorry, I'm out of vocabulary here :D ). I think the French word for that is "accouphène", sorry, I didn't found the word in any dictionnary, I don't have any English/French medical dictionnary :P Usually it is caused by listening music too loud with a headset, but it is not my case as I almost never use such things ( in fact I hate them :angry: ). [/b][/quote]
What i mean is that at any time, anywhere i can just make my view go fuzzy. everythings all blurry and i can make my eyes do that at any time i want. its paryticuarily useful when sombody is angry at u and they tell u to look at them! :) i just make them go fuzzy and i just look like im looking at them.

hmmm.....wel, ive had accouphène/tinitis even since i can remember and it realy ticks me of coz i can never have complete silence. U try being angry and anoid and having a constant been in your head! :D :P

[fafner]

Originally posted by dragon_child888+Jun 8 2004, 11:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dragon_child888 @ Jun 8 2004, 11:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>What i mean is that at any time, anywhere i can just make my view go fuzzy. everythings all blurry and i can make my eyes do that at any time i want. its paryticuarily useful when sombody is angry at u and they tell u to look at them! :) i just make them go fuzzy and i just look like im looking at them.[/b]

So, you have found someone able to do this :D But I didn't see this as a particular ability, for me it's just like relaxing the eyes, in fact when I want to focus again I sometime run into troubles not being able to focus again :P (that's when I am tired)

<!--QuoteBegin--dragon_child888@Jun 8 2004, 11:31 PM
hmmm.....wel, ive had accouphène/tinitis even since i can remember and it realy ticks me of coz i can never have complete silence. U try being angry and anoid and having a constant been in your head! :D :P[/quote]

I think I have always lived with that, I'm not sure because I didn't really noticed it until a few years ago. I know I had this long before I realized it because I had noticed the sound, but I thought it was the sound of the blood flooding through the tympanum (although the sound is continuous unlike the flood of the blood). I was young when I thought that, I could believe anything :P
But I am still amazed I can hear slight sounds that nobody else can hear :unsure: I can hear the phone rining in another room, even when there is noise in the room where I am (although there must not be too much noise), other members of my family usually don't hear it. This heap of junk has a very low sound and the intensity of the sound can't be changed :angry:

[snorkyller]

When I was young (from 5 to 13), I was often "sleep walking" (often when I was sick). dragon_child888 , you mentioned something pretty strange in sleep walking : your eyes are opened but you don't consciously see.

There are other strange things:
- You're unconscious but you can walk from a room to another, opening/closing doors, with any problem.
- You can even see things or people around you and used/'talk to' them...

But the more strange thing is that while you sleep walk, you feel that you're sleeping just as usual ; no difference! Then you wake up and see that you're not in your bed. I felt also strange to wake up with the eye opened. People was often wondering what I was doing and feeling... I always answered : "I was just sleeping!"

Doing so much things unconsciouly proves the power of the subconscious when you sleep. I was talking previously about the fact that subconscious is very active in the night. So it's also powerfull.

So I think that "sleep paralyses" can also come from the subconsious activity. If you don't want to sleep walk or to have sleep paralyses (or other strange sleep event), you'll have to control your subconsious. :lol: ;) It's surely possible indirectly (like changing what happens when you're consious: change things in your life). But it's surely also difficult... !!!

[dragon_child888]

controll your mind you must if ever you want to become true jedi. :ph34r: