Your thoughts on the movie? (SPOILERS of course)

Talk about all things Astro Boy!
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cybotron
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Postby cybotron » 14 years ago

Not bad...
Thanx. :ninja: :w00t:
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Postby dannavy85 » 14 years ago

The heap of trash and floating city threw me off. There were many ways they could have crafted the movie without the overt political jingo.

But still I don't think it harmed Astro's reputation at all.

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Postby Dragonrider1227 » 14 years ago

"Ninjatron" wrote:I wrote an article about the apparent political themes in the movie and what I perceive to be the overreaction to them. Please give it a read and leave comments there if you would like to discuss it further.

http://astroboyworld.blogspot.com/2009/11/red-and-blue-politics-of-astro-boy.html

Sayonara.

I read your article and I couldn't agree more. People just seem to enjoy looking for things to complain about. I left this comment on the blog;

I seriously do not see the big deal in the so called "Political agenda" in this movie. Has no one actually sat down and READ the manga? Or other works of Tezuka? The original Astro Boy manga had him fall into Vietnam in the 60s, fighting American soldiers to protect a village. (yeah, nothing political about that) And another Manga (I think it was Metropolis) had a scientist trying to warn the world leaders about an alien invasion but the leaders ignored him in favor of angering each other into World War III. And quite frankly, if Astro Boy were to be on any side of a political debate, it would be the left
and for the record, I don't recall Democrats and Republicans ever being color-coded into Blue and Red.

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Postby Ninjatron » 14 years ago

Ok everyone, time to step up!

I've created a post on AstroBoy World that is especially for you, the fans, to post your reviews of the movie. This will serve as a time capsule that will preserve our feelings about the film for years to come, so that the boring critics who didn't get it won't be the only voices that go down in history.

Please post a short paragraph or a link to a permanent blog or website post by using the comment feature right here:

The Only Reviews That Matter - Yours!

It doesn't need to be a big deal, just a little short message saying what you liked about the movie will be fine.

So get to it already!

Sayonara.
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jayrath
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Postby jayrath » 14 years ago

Wh - huh?

Anyway -- let me take the gloves off. I've tried to be nice, and to be circumspect. Look, you all know me, and I love Astro. Hell, I was out there as a fan of Astro even as we were doing it. I explained him to the rest of the cast, because I'm also a cartoonist, before any of you knew who he was. I met the Japanese studio execs, the Japanese network execs. I helped rewrite the 80s scripts (in VERY small part) and helped write the theme lyrics (in very large part).

There are of course many possible interpretations of Astro. That's the great thing. He can be -- he MUST be -- reinvented for new generations. That's great and all good.

But he's Astroboy, not AstroTEEN. The movie paints him as emo until the last scene. Cage phoned in his part, and the script dynamics, from a purely professional standpoint, are . . . confused. Kill the lead character before establishing audience sympathy? Actually make him snotty and unlikeable until 10 minutes after he realizes he's a robot? Make his longed-for father just short of an absolute jerk? This is screenwriting 101.

Many, many holes -- Toby's body is gone but not his hat? This has all been stated at length elsewhere, and in better words.

My biggest complaint is that the post-World War II message -- the horror of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the overt, repeated theme that we all need to get along and love each other -- has been replaced by an amorphous "green" eco-friendly message in the movie.

That's great. That's wonderful. But that interpretation merely makes Astro the latest Prius American hybrid car.

And it's far weaker than what I personally was told, again and again, was Tezuka's intent. I don't mean to be any sort of self-appointed carrier of the Astroboy flame, but if no one else will come forward -- I sure as h#ll will.

Astro is a cute little boy robot -- who speaks to us best about the necessary love of all humanity. That is his power -- that is the story's power.

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Postby sgupta » 14 years ago

"jayrath" wrote: Anyway -- let me take the gloves off. I've tried to be nice, and to be circumspect. Look, you all know me, and I love Astro. Hell, I was out there as a fan of Astro even as we were doing it. I explained him to the rest of the cast, because I'm also a cartoonist, before any of you knew who he was. I met the Japanese studio execs, the Japanese network execs. I helped rewrite the 80s scripts (in VERY small part) and helped write the theme lyrics (in very large part).
First of all, I definitely thank you and respect you for your contributions to Astro Boy 1980 and all you've done for us. Your perspective is certainly very unique and special, and I'd never argue as to my opinion being more valid than yours. However, I do disagree respectfully, as a new fan, and would like to provide an alternate viewpoint for some of your points...
But he's Astroboy, not AstroTEEN. The movie paints him as emo until the last scene. Cage phoned in his part, and the script dynamics, from a purely professional standpoint, are . . . confused. Kill the lead character before establishing audience sympathy? Actually make him snotty and unlikeable until 10 minutes after he realizes he's a robot? Make his longed-for father just short of an absolute jerk? This is screenwriting 101.
I'm only starting to get into the other mediums (manga, 60's, 80's, and 2003 series), but I've experienced a bit of all of them at this point, and I can honestly say these are criticisms as a new viewer I just don't relate. This movie character is still very much Astro Boy to me, even if he is a new take and may be perceived as a bit older. To me he's certainly not too old and I immediately identify him as the same character as in the animated series. There isn't a disconnect. Yes I get that he comes off a bit older acting in the movie than the series, but that just doesn't bug me. As far as Toby being unlikeable, I don't agree with that at all either. I immediately liked him - sure, he's a bit pretentious (which to me is kind of cute), but he's bright and clearly doesn't have the relationship with his father that he wants, so that's not so far-fetched. He's flawed but cute and I suspect still very sweet despite it not being shown on-screen. I too might have liked a more drawn out backstory and death (nothing brings it home like the anime I agree, especially the uncut version), but I still think this worked, and I did sincerely sympathize with the character. And, Tenma kind of always was a jerk at the beginning in all variations as far as I'm aware. ^.^ Some more than others. I liked this dimension of the story, and it's something most kids movies wouldn't *touch* with a ten foot pole.
Many, many holes -- Toby's body is gone but not his hat? This has all been stated at length elsewhere, and in better words.
I actually agree I would have probably had a different death (slower/more painful to watch - maybe the original car accident scenario), my biggest criticism of the movie, and this was probably a way to make it less dark for kids (which I don't agree with, but keep in mind, my big fear was they'd take the death out ENTIRELY, which they *soooOo* easily could have done and started the picture with a scientist just making a superboy robot). So I'm pleased that death is still presented. As far as the hat, that bothered me, but I do what I do usually - make up an explanation. ^.^ For me, it was a Ministry of Science cap, so it could have easily been made of a new experimental material that's made to survive anything (think how some jewelry is made of titanium).
My biggest complaint is that the post-World War II message -- the horror of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the overt, repeated theme that we all need to get along and love each other -- has been replaced by an amorphous "green" eco-friendly message in the movie. That's great. That's wonderful. But that interpretation merely makes Astro the latest Prius American hybrid car.
The green message was there, but I didn't feel it was all that overplayed. Sure, Metro City is different in this version, but Astro Boy always was about current issues, so I didn't really mind it. Also, I felt the love each other and get along theme was still very much there! Astro *still* chose peace instead of revenge...chose helping those trying to do him harm in the end instead of destroying them...chose standing up for both robots AND humans. And I felt this aspect was far more present, for me, than the green message. I just didn't feel the green message was particularly heavy handed. I actually thought the political aspect was more heavy handed, which bothered me slightly (even though politically I'm on the same page), but not that much.
And it's far weaker than what I personally was told, again and again, was Tezuka's intent. I don't mean to be any sort of self-appointed carrier of the Astroboy flame, but if no one else will come forward -- I sure as h#ll will. Astro is a cute little boy robot -- who speaks to us best about the necessary love of all humanity. That is his power -- that is the story's power.
Well here you're the expert far more than myself, but I'd argue I enjoy the 2003 series, and I don't think from what I've read Tezuka would be crazy about it either. The thing is, I've just decided to accept that these reimaginings are not and never will be the originals. For that reason, the manga, 60's, and 80's versions will always hold a special reverance for me as I watch them. That said, though, I'm not opposed to trying something new with a character either. To sum it up, I'm here...and a fan of Astro Boy...*because* of this movie. I never gave it the time of day before, even when the 60's version was on Cartoon Network, which is a shame! (One of those things where I just never really looked at it even though it was there - like a lot of people, I looked at everything new and ignored the older stuff because I never realized until recently how much cooler most of the older stuff actually is.) This movie got me interested and made me fall in love! (I think it was the flying scene. That whole scene where he learns he can fly is, for me, the highlight of the movie and just mesmerizing to watch/experience.) And I fell in love with the original, not just with this movie, but I really did think this was the most fun movie of the summer! (Annnd best soundtrack of the year too IMO!) I think it also has to be said, even if you're upset at the changes from the original, which is understandable, it could have been *sooOOoo* much worse in my opinion. Think just how much they *could* have changed the character, or how they could have taken out the death or the problems with Tenma, or how they could have gutted everything emotional. I just think they got much more right than wrong. Just my opinion of course - not trying to negate yours; but know there *are* Astro fans because of this movie out there. ^.^

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Postby jayrath » 14 years ago

We are fully agreed! I welcome and wholly value new interpretations. That is what will keep Astro alive to new generations -- the same as James Bond, Sherlock Holmes -- all the forever characters.

But let's be clear -- the '60s English-speaking Astro is actually the '50s Japanese- speaking Astro. He was created in response to nuclear war. In fact, it's implicit in his name: in English, "The Mighty Atom." Not the mighty feel-good eco-friendly recycling robot. Definitely not "The Mighty One-Half-Asteroid-Derivative." That violates canon, that violates Tezuka, that defames the original.

Nope.

As for the rest?

The movie character's appearance has been widely debated. They shot down the boy-design in favor of the early teen. Whatever. I care far less about his outward appearance than his internal behavior.

It's all good. I welcome Astro II. But it's a reboot, and let's not kid ourselves that it's not.

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Postby sgupta » 14 years ago

"jayrath" wrote:We are fully agreed! I welcome and wholly value new interpretations. That is what will keep Astro alive to new generations -- the same as James Bond, Sherlock Holmes -- all the forever characters.
It's really interesting and enjoyable to read the viewpoint of someone involved Astro Boy canon. A bit of a sidenote, but the only character I can think of made accessible to new generations while maintaining continuity is The Doctor (from Doctor Who) - it's actually a continuation of the original back from the 60's also, but of course it has its share of quirks and anomalies and explain-aways too because of that. [There's a very famous change they tried to make in the American movie based on the series that is absolutely hated by most Whovians including myself, so it was basically undone and never spoken of again in the new [BBC] series; in fact they poked some fun at it - lol]. Anyways, back on topic.
But let's be clear -- the '60s English-speaking Astro is actually the '50s Japanese- speaking Astro. He was created in response to nuclear war. In fact, it's implicit in his name: in English, "The Mighty Atom." Not the mighty feel-good eco-friendly recycling robot. Definitely not "The Mighty One-Half-Asteroid-Derivative." That violates canon, that violates Tezuka, that defames the original.
Oh certainly a fair point. And I would have loved had it kept to its roots here. But then, I don't really recall the 2003 version pilot, nor really the 80's and 60's pilots, making a big point out of the nuclear war fact. I've only watched a bit of these so far (really love them, but I'm going backwards through the series from newest to oldest as I think it'll be most interesting that way - I'm also trying to watch as much as I can in both English and Japanese w/ subtitles). I did watch all the pilot episodes tho' (not the uncut 80's one yet, but I saw the televised version) to compare. (Perhaps the manga, which I haven't begun yet.) . If you wanted to really stretch things, you could allude the blue energy and red as fusion and fission, but that's really a stretch. Yes, the asteroid thing was derivative, but it just wasn't a huge plot point to me - I can see how seeing the historical nature of the original, it probably would have been. At any rate, I'm sure these changes were an attempt to make it more topical and accessible for today, and I agree it was wholly unnecessary to remove these themes and stray from the original by inserting others. But, I actually feel they kept more intact than I would have expected. I hate it whenever anything is dumbed down or altered to better appeal to Americans/kids, and I'm sure that applies here to an extent, but it really wasn't as severe a chop-job as I expected, and expectations may have played a major role in my opinion. I wasn't really expecting to like this movie as much as I did going in and I also had only a vague notion of the character, which probably helped me like it. I find the most enjoyable movies for me are the surprises like that.
The movie character's appearance has been widely debated. They shot down the boy-design in favor of the early teen. Whatever. I care far less about his outward appearance than his internal behavior.
Yes, I saw some early screens of the younger Astro (I believe there's one of him standing next to a silver alternate version of possibly Zog or another arena robot). Personally I'm not sure that character would have worked as well 3D (2D sure) as the one they used, but that's subjective. Personally, the movie Astro didn't come off as "teen" to me. Maybe "tween". heh. But to me, it's just not that much of a stretch - I would guess it has a lot to do with how different people see the character differently and what they like about it him, but I dunno. I might have felt differently viewing the source material first and moving up to the movie than moving backwards the way I am.
It's all good. I welcome Astro II. But it's a reboot, and let's not kid ourselves that it's not.
Oh no doubt it's a reboot (as was I'd say 2003). You're dead on that the 60's and 80's will always be the standard since Tezuka was directly involved, and quite right too.

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Postby Dragonrider1227 » 14 years ago

"jayrath" wrote:Wh - huh?

Anyway -- let me take the gloves off. I've tried to be nice, and to be circumspect. Look, you all know me, and I love Astro. Hell, I was out there as a fan of Astro even as we were doing it. I explained him to the rest of the cast, because I'm also a cartoonist, before any of you knew who he was. I met the Japanese studio execs, the Japanese network execs. I helped rewrite the 80s scripts (in VERY small part) and helped write the theme lyrics (in very large part).

There are of course many possible interpretations of Astro. That's the great thing. He can be -- he MUST be -- reinvented for new generations. That's great and all good.

But he's Astroboy, not AstroTEEN. The movie paints him as emo until the last scene. Cage phoned in his part, and the script dynamics, from a purely professional standpoint, are . . . confused. Kill the lead character before establishing audience sympathy? Actually make him snotty and unlikeable until 10 minutes after he realizes he's a robot? Make his longed-for father just short of an absolute jerk? This is screenwriting 101.

Many, many holes -- Toby's body is gone but not his hat? This has all been stated at length elsewhere, and in better words.

My biggest complaint is that the post-World War II message -- the horror of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and the overt, repeated theme that we all need to get along and love each other -- has been replaced by an amorphous "green" eco-friendly message in the movie.

That's great. That's wonderful. But that interpretation merely makes Astro the latest Prius American hybrid car.

And it's far weaker than what I personally was told, again and again, was Tezuka's intent. I don't mean to be any sort of self-appointed carrier of the Astroboy flame, but if no one else will come forward -- I sure as h#ll will.

Astro is a cute little boy robot -- who speaks to us best about the necessary love of all humanity. That is his power -- that is the story's power.


*GASP* Shun the Non-Believer! SHUUUUUUUN! :lol: I'm just joking. Everyone should have their own opinions.
Honestly, Astro's new power source doesn't bother me. His power source in the original was merely a response to Nuclear War as someone here already pointed out which was the "current topic" of the day back in the 50s and 60s. That's NOT the current topic today. What is? The environment and war. The way I see it, it's just keeping the core messege of Astro Boy up to date for modern audiences. That and let's face it, the series is supposed to be futuristic and nuclear power hasn't been considered "futuristic" since the 50s.
While I also didn't mind the new age approach for Astro, I DO think they walked a fine line. One step in the wrong direction could've screwed it up but they managed to balance it out pretty well. Besides, I don't think 13 QUITE throws him in "AstroTeen." AstroTween, maybe :p but even early teen/tween boys are still boys so it still works. Especially since they did it without ruining Astro's core characteristic

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Postby jayrath » 14 years ago


*GASP* Shun the Non-Believer! SHUUUUUUUN! :lol: I'm just joking. Everyone should have their own opinions.


As I said, there must be new interpretations for new generations. That's what will keep Astro alive. There are a lot of good things in the movie, and if it excites new fans -- great!


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