Imagi US shuts down

[Hikari Tail]

I understand the responses here to the movie Tenma. But in terms of handling a difficult character in such a way that general audiences could accept it, I think the movie Tenma works very well. He helps bring the plot full circle - he rejects Astro at first, then works through his grief and finally embraces him at the end. That brought emotional closure to the film, and made for a happy ending. That scene when he brought Astro back to life and set him free was a wonderful moment. And it couldn't have happened if the movie had followed the manga word-for-word. Both the movie and manga had two basic storylines - Tenma's grief over the loss of his son, and Astro's struggle to be accepted and loved. Whereas the manga rushed through those storylines, the movie rightly expanded upon them. And that made for a much better movie, in my opinion.

I was always intrigued by the manga Tenma, because of the idea that he was, beneath the madness, a grieving father. The movie's writers made use of the latter quality, and discarded the madness, and I really think they made right choice. If the writers had made Tenma darker, I think the death of Toby and Tenma's rejection of Astro would have been too dark for the audiences Imagi was trying to entertain.

It's perhaps important to remember that the Astro Boy manga was a series of episodes, instead of a continuing story with a final conclusion. Imagi had to create that story, and FWIW I think it did a fine job of it.

With all due respect Imagi doesn't give children any credit this way. I understand how it would seem as 'Dark' but Astroboy was never a toddler's cartoon in the first place, children don't get traumatize from seeing themes like this. This all reminds me of Sailor Moon, the anime-series is intended for young girls- to older woman however when it came down to the united states Dic created it to be for girls of the age of 8 and under.

Which was not a smart move because the series got a low ranting with viewers and the only American fandom that did watched the show were older teens who already read the manga ( which was even more darker at times then the animated show )

It just doesn't work, children are a lot more aware of the world then people take credit for and if there is a story like Astro boy which is intended for older children and young teens ( and not for toddlers ) then you don't change the concept and change the targeted traditional audience.

Sorry was ranting here.

[Laughing Dragon]

There was already some controversy over the film because a child died. If Imagi had also included a scene where the replica of that child gets chased by his deranged dad brandishing a shovel, as was shown in the manga, I can just imagine what the outcry would have been. Bottom line: Imagi was trying to craft a movie that general audiences could relate to. The fact that it included that child's death, plus the rejection of the substitute child, was pretty gutsy in my view. It had to, of course, or the movie would in no way be about Astro Boy. But I think Imagi handled those aspects well.

[MegaAstroFan75]

[QUOTE=Laughing Dragon;96038]I understand the responses here to the movie Tenma. But in terms of handling a difficult character in such a way that general audiences could accept it, I think the movie Tenma works very well. He helps bring the plot full circle - he rejects Astro at first, then works through his grief and finally embraces him at the end. That brought emotional closure to the film, and made for a happy ending. That scene when he brought Astro back to life and set him free was a wonderful moment. And it couldn't have happened if the movie had followed the manga word-for-word. Both the movie and manga had two basic storylines - Tenma's grief over the loss of his son, and Astro's struggle to be accepted and loved. Whereas the manga rushed through those storylines, the movie rightly expanded upon them. And that made for a much better movie, in my opinion.

I was always intrigued by the manga Tenma, because of the idea that he was, beneath the madness, a grieving father. The movie's writers made use of the latter quality, and discarded the madness, and I really think they made right choice. If the writers had made Tenma darker, I think the death of Toby and Tenma's rejection of Astro would have been too dark for the audiences Imagi was trying to entertain.

It's perhaps important to remember that the Astro Boy manga was a series of episodes, instead of a continuing story with a final conclusion. Imagi had to create that story, and FWIW I think it did a fine job of it.

With all due respect Imagi doesn't give children any credit this way. I understand how it would seem as 'Dark' but Astroboy was never a toddler's cartoon in the first place, children don't get traumatize from seeing themes like this. This all reminds me of Sailor Moon, the anime-series is intended for young girls- to older woman however when it came down to the united states Dic created it to be for girls of the age of 8 and under.

Which was not a smart move because the series got a low ranting with viewers and the only American fandom that did watched the show were older teens who already read the manga ( which was even more darker at times then the animated show )

It just doesn't work, children are a lot more aware of the world then people take credit for and if there is a story like Astro boy which is intended for older children and young teens ( and not for toddlers ) then you don't change the concept and change the targeted traditional audience.

Sorry was ranting here.[/QUOTE]

You're right, but children weren't the reason that Astro Boy 2009 was lighter. It was basically general American audiences that the film was made lighter for. So in that event you could say it was more dumbed down for adults than children.

[JumpJump]

Anyway, about Imagi. This is a pretty devastating sequence of events for the studio. What do you think is going to happen to Gatchaman?

[dannavy85]

Anyway, about Imagi. This is a pretty devastating sequence of events for the studio. What do you think is going to happen to Gatchaman?

I don't think we'll see it in America. As for Imagi's treatment, I had fair pro and con moments about it but it was released at a bad time in America. You have a shaky economy, the swine flu scare perked up by the media and the government and the release date itself seemed a bad choice.

But they made a good effort.

[Laughing Dragon]

Anyway, about Imagi. This is a pretty devastating sequence of events for the studio. What do you think is going to happen to Gatchaman?

I don't think we'll see it in America. As for Imagi's treatment, I had fair pro and con moments about it but it was released at a bad time in America. You have a shaky economy, the swine flu scare perked up by the media and the government and the release date itself seemed a bad choice.

But they made a good effort.

They certainly did. They obviously had a great respect and affection for Astro; it shines through in the film. And I agree about the poor timing of the film's release in America. And it looks like Summit is continuing its bumbling ways overseas; it's released Astro Boy in the UK at the same time Disney released Princess and the Frog. So Astro's up against that, AND Toy Story 3, AND Alvin and the Chipmunks. It's like Summit's out to get our little robot boy...

[jeffbert]

I really prefer the Darth V- i mean 2003's anime Tenma and Tezuka's abusive Tenma, he has always been my favorite character between good and evil and unlike other human characters in the manga/anime who believe robots are worthless dolls that should not get equal laws Tenma is the exact opposite he believes robots should rule over humans.

The chapters and episodes where he attempts again to get Astro back are also heart breaking because you no he doesn't get his way and his actions in the past get back to him to make sure he regrets his actions in the past.

He was the best good/bad guy character in the series because he stands out of all the other vilians the humans that hate robots and envy them and the robots that hate humans for being persecuted and hurt by them ( and the robots that do act as slaves to humans to the point of killing others for their masters ) . Think about Ham Egg Atlas and Pluto. Tenma differs from them all and the idea of Astro boy's biggest threat is not a robot but a mere human who also happends to be his creator is fascinating.

This is why i'm not to happy about the 1980's Tenma or the movie version.

When i saw in the movie trailer there was a scene where Astro and Tenma hugged each other before Astro went away to save someone/stop a huge robot, to me that didn't look right because that's supposed to be Dr. Ochanomizu, he's Astro boy's real father-figure and teacher/guide he is also the one that wishes Astor boy good luck whenever he does out to save someone not Dr Tenma.

My apologies to those who might have already said this, but I wonder if they changed Tenma because of objections to making him as dark as he was in past versions. That is, parents might have objected to a father who not only rejects his son, but who makes his life miserable. Yet, upon checking my manga notes, Tenma is Atom'a ally from his 2nd through 5th appearance in the (Shonen) manga. Likewise, in the newspaper version, he repents and teaches Atom's robot mama all of Hoshie's habits and mannerisms. I think Tenma was poorly represented in the 2003 version, & that being the most recent, other than Urasawa's Pluto, was most influential. Moreover, with most of Tenma's appearances in the B&W being excluded from the U.S. version, many viewers simply do not know of his acting as Atom's benefactor on several occasions.

Thus, in the film, Tenma's madness is only temporary, which is consistent with his character. They had to compress everything, though, because of the thing being a film rather than a series.

Enough history for now; Back to my point: those whose 1st exposure to Atom was the 2003 series may indeed perceive Dr. Tenma as being watered down-- wait-- I am still doing the history thing! In Jetter Mars, there was a conflict between Dr. Yamanoue (a version of Tenma) & Dr. Kawashimo (Dr. O), & this may have contributed to the inclusion of both Tenma & Ochanomizu. I must wait for the DVD before writing a thorough analysis, though.

I do think that the idea of making the film for both old fans and new may have caused some weaknesses. Trying to appeal to such a wide range of fans surely made it less appealing to either one.

I have no idea what might have been had the original director been retained, though.

MegaAstroFan75, As much as I prefer the Japanese names, I do find it a bit awkward to write the Romaji (rōmaji) rather than the actual translations or meanings of the names. 'Atom' is 'Atomu,' just as 'Toby' is 'Tobio,' but w/o the Japanese pronunciation. irate: While I usually do use 'Tobio' I consider the difference to be negligible.

[MegaAstroFan75]

My apologies to those who might have already said this, but I wonder if they changed Tenma because of objections to making him as dark as he was in past versions. That is, parents might have objected to a father who not only rejects his son, but who makes his life miserable. Yet, upon checking my manga notes, Tenma is Atom'a ally from his 2nd through 5th appearance in the (Shonen) manga. Likewise, in the newspaper version, he repents and teaches Atom's robot mama all of Hoshie's habits and mannerisms. I think Tenma was poorly represented in the 2003 version, & that being the most recent, other than Urasawa's Pluto, was most influential. Moreover, with most of Tenma's appearances in the B&W being excluded from the U.S. version, many viewers simply do not know of his acting as Atom's benefactor on several occasions.

He wasn't poorly represented, in fact it's probably the best version of him. The 2003 series was essentially a very very loose adaptation of Astro Reborn (a name given to penultimate episode) and Melanin Tribe. Or at least Tenma's role is. They extended his role sure, but Tenma has been a very very nasty man in the past and he is considerably watered down in the 2009 film.

You're right he is Astro's benefactor, but not after he gets over a period of craziness longer than in the film. I understand all Tenma's history, but I still love the 2003 version. Well IMO the 2003 series is the best interpretation of Astro Boy so far, and that brings me to the Tobio part. Even in the 2003 dub they call Tenma's son Tobio, and in the manga he's also called Tobio (even in the translated version). So Tobio it is.

[Hikari Tail]

Which mange version are we talking about here anyway? Tenma is indeed an ally of Astrboy in some chapters but again in other chapters he was wacko clamming Robots will one day serve humans with Astroboy as their leader, this Tenma is very much like the 2003 Tenma,

[Laughing Dragon]

My apologies to those who might have already said this, but I wonder if they changed Tenma because of objections to making him as dark as he was in past versions. That is, parents might have objected to a father who not only rejects his son, but who makes his life miserable. Yet, upon checking my manga notes, Tenma is Atom'a ally from his 2nd through 5th appearance in the (Shonen) manga. Likewise, in the newspaper version, he repents and teaches Atom's robot mama all of Hoshie's habits and mannerisms. I think Tenma was poorly represented in the 2003 version, & that being the most recent, other than Urasawa's Pluto, was most influential. Moreover, with most of Tenma's appearances in the B&W being excluded from the U.S. version, many viewers simply do not know of his acting as Atom's benefactor on several occasions.

He wasn't poorly represented, in fact it's probably the best version of him. The 2003 series was essentially a very very loose adaptation of Astro Reborn (a name given to penultimate episode) and Melanin Tribe. Or at least Tenma's role is. They extended his role sure, but Tenma has been a very very nasty man in the past and he is considerably watered down in the 2009 film.

You're right he is Astro's benefactor, but not after he gets over a period of craziness longer than in the film. I understand all Tenma's history, but I still love the 2003 version. Well IMO the 2003 series is the best interpretation of Astro Boy so far, and that brings me to the Tobio part. Even in the 2003 dub they call Tenma's son Tobio, and in the manga he's also called Tobio (even in the translated version). So Tobio it is.

Perhaps the question shouldn't be: Which version of Tenma is the best version, but: Which version worked best for the movie? IMO, no way would movie audiences have accepted, or even tolerated, the darker, crazier versions of Tenma. For example: Imagi gave a presentation at an anime convention some months ago, and in it, it was very straightforward about the difficulties Astro Boy has had at the box office. It listed potential reasons why the film stumbled, derived from surveys it conducted with preview audiences prior to the film's release. One objection raised by those audiences concerned Tenma's initial rejection of Astro. Now, that rejection absolutely could not have been avoided in the movie version, or Astro fans (me included) would have screamed bloody murder. And it certainly would have weakened the film's potent emotional punch. And anyway, as we all know, parents can be dreadful ninnies sometimes. But the point is, had Tenma acted as insane and brutal in the film as he did in the manga and in some of the animes, then there would have been controversy and an outcry, and movie would be in much worse trouble than it is now. I think that's been my point all along. Giving Tenma more heart and less crazy actually helped the film. But that doesn't mean he's the best version for the manga or animes. That's a matter of opinion.