Tenma-Villain or Antagonist?

[Prettywitchiusaka]

I think it's safe to say that Tenma is one of the most popular characters in Astro Boy. And for good reason; he's a very human character.

Regardless of what version you look at, he always comes off as being a morally ambiguous character. That being said, he was always a minor character despite that position, and really did not rise to main cast member status until the 2003 series. In fact, while we all have varying opinions on which version of Astro Boy we love, I think it's safe to say that everyone (including myself) agrees that Tenma is one of the best things about the 2003 series. He is crafted into such a sympathetic character, that it's hard not to get involved in his story despite his position as the antagonist.

But that's the thing; just HOW much of Tenma is villainous? And how much of him is an antagonist? Both words have very different meanings, and either could apply to Tenma's character.

That's really what I want to look at today; Is Tenma a villain? Or is he an antagonist?

I personally lean a tad bit more towards the antagonist side of things, though I do believe that he falls somewhere in between. Let me try to explain.

The defenition of antagonist is as follows; One who opposes and contends against another; an adversary. I feel that this defenition really works with Tenma in the 2003 series, as he naturally opposes both Astro and Ochanomizu's ideologies, and is proactively seeking out ways to ensure that Astro fall in line with his own goals. At the same time, I would argue that Tenma is an antagonist simply due to one other thing; he is genuinely sympathetic.

His entire "Robot Dmination" tactics or maipulation of his own child didn't come out of some desireable need to rule over people, he was left guilt ridden and alone. And the more he saw his mistakes (in both his life, and robotic evolution), the more mentally unstable he became. He treats hisnown goals and motives as if it's just given that robots will become more superior to man, and that he is justified in escalating the conflict. Heck, you could probably make the argument that Tenma may just want robot domination because he probably believes that robots won't leave him alone, and that he's just trying to win his son's love back.

However, we also have to look at the villain side of things as well.

The defenition for a villain is as follows; a wicked or malevolent person. While I feel that Tenma is genuinely sympathetic, that does not mean that I feel he's above garnering any villain status. After all, he gets away with quite a lot in the 2003 series up until the finale. He brainwashes/hacks robots to do his bidding, he's not above hurting robots to meet his goals, and he's a master manipulator. Although, I would make the argument that Tenma's actions only grow more villanous the more desperate he gets. The episode right before the finale is defenitely an indication, though the one I always like to cite is the Steel Island episode. Not only does he manipulate Drake/Lamp to attack a robot ship out of desperate improvisation just to get Astro, Astro almost early attacks the humans on ship, something he'd been resiliant to do up until that moment.

Anyway, that's my argument. But now, I want to know what you guys think.

[Tobiofan]

Interesting. I would say hes in between as well. He didn't do all that just because he thought it was fun like a villain would, he did because hes unstable in a way that only his son's forgivness can cure. If that make any sense how I put that.

[Amaryllis]

I think this summed up a lot of the reasons why Tenma is my favorite character. (I'm a little surprised by how popular he is, but I'm not complaining.)

I do agree that Tenma comes across as more antagonistic than outright villainous in the 2003 series, though he does become more villainous as he takes a bigger role in the series, as he's more willing to use manipulation and violence. I think what's most interesting is how his selfishness is portrayed - obviously he has very specific goals for himself, but he's completely convinced that his goals will benefit Astro the most. It's kind of like a selfless selfishness - he'll do whatever it takes to make robot domination possible for Astro, whether Astro wants it or not.

In some of the later manga storylines, specifically "Astro Reborn" and "Meeva," Tenma does come across as more openly villainous. His end goal isn't so bad - he just wants to be reunited with Astro again, after all - but the means in which he tries to meet said goal are borderline sadistic. Some of that probably stems from his portrayal in the original "Ambassador Atom" one-shot, in which he's even crazier and more homicidal, especially when he says "I'll never let anyone else have Astro," as he's killing his alternate space counterpart, primarily out of petty jealousy.

Anyway, the whole point of this rambling is that I do think Tenma does fit both the role of antagonist and of villain, depending on what points of the series and adaptations we're referring to.

[Shiyonasan]

I think I will have to agree with you three guys (girls?) that Tenma does seem to fall somewhere in-between villain and antagonist.

Granted, I have only watched the 2003 anime in full, so I don't have the full picture of how he is. However, in the 2003 anime, he tends to lean more towards antagonist in my opinion. The last six episodes of the 2003 anime especially make him out to be a villain than an antagonist, though at the end of the show, he becomes more of an antagonist. From what I've seen of the 1980 anime, he's pretty much the same as well.

You guys pretty much brought up some of my thoughts on this as well, so I don't think I have much to add. I will say though that, even though I agree he seems to fall between those two archetypes, I think he tends to lean towards antagonist more often than not. His actions are overall genuine and sometimes in good intentions, but he typically goes about his actions in the wrong way.

[Prettywitchiusaka]

I think this summed up a lot of the reasons why Tenma is my favorite character. (I'm a little surprised by how popular he is, but I'm not complaining.)

I do agree that Tenma comes across as more antagonistic than outright villainous in the 2003 series, though he does become more villainous as he takes a bigger role in the series, as he's more willing to use manipulation and violence. I think what's most interesting is how his selfishness is portrayed - obviously he has very specific goals for himself, but he's completely convinced that his goals will benefit Astro the most. It's kind of like a selfless selfishness - he'll do whatever it takes to make robot domination possible for Astro, whether Astro wants it or not.

In some of the later manga storylines, specifically "Astro Reborn" and "Meeva," Tenma does come across as more openly villainous. His end goal isn't so bad - he just wants to be reunited with Astro again, after all - but the means in which he tries to meet said goal are borderline sadistic. Some of that probably stems from his portrayal in the original "Ambassador Atom" one-shot, in which he's even crazier and more homicidal, especially when he says "I'll never let anyone else have Astro," as he's killing his alternate space counterpart, primarily out of petty jealousy.

Anyway, the whole point of this rambling is that I do think Tenma does fit both the role of antagonist and of villain, depending on what points of the series and adaptations we're referring to.

Yeah, the selfish-selflessness angle you brought up just kind of adds to Tenma's creepy factor. After all, his actions affect not just the robots he involves, but Astro as well.

In fact, you could probably apply the villain ro antagonist question in his behaviour towards Astro. Just going by the 2003 series, I think you're right in saying that he thinks his goals will benefit Astro the most. Therfore, you could argue that this goal is more villanous, since he's not above amanipulating his own child to acheive his goals. Yet look at the way he treats Astro when they're together; he treats him with genuine care, and is never really acts malicious towards him, even when Astro goes against his wishes. Heck, he even saves him a couple times throughout teh course of the series. This of course, puts him in the creepy stalker category, but it's also a good argument for how he falls in between the lines with regards to his own child.

[Astro Forever]

Interesting. I would say hes in between as well. He didn't do all that just because he thought it was fun like a villain would, he did because hes unstable in a way that only his son's forgivness can cure. If that make any sense how I put that.

I think what's most interesting is how his selfishness is portrayed - obviously he has very specific goals for himself, but he's completely convinced that his goals will benefit Astro the most. It's kind of like a selfless selfishness - he'll do whatever it takes to make robot domination possible for Astro, whether Astro wants it or not.

To expand from the above quotes, I tend to see him as more than only a villain, because if he was just that, I wouldn't find him very interesting or moving. It's the complexity of his motives, given through his background, which makes him interesting to me. In the final scene of the 2003 series, he is shown looking at pictures of Astro and Tobio side by side. I wouldn't imagine Skunk doing something like that.

I must say that I didn't find him to be a villain in the 1980 series. He didn't listen to the orders and brought Astro to life, then got impatient with him, but he didn't want to harm him and didn't voluntary lose him.

[jeffbert]

Tenma & Tokugawa both owe their manipulative ways to both Duke Duralumin & Mrs. Hell. These two had ideas about what their children would become, totally disregarding those kids' own desires. In the Manga version translated into English, Plastic eats Sapphire's male heart, & though born retarded, he becomes intelligent and manly. He opposes his papa's scheme & writes a law that allows women to rule, & abdicates. In both the version cited above, & the anime, Hekate likewise foils all her parents attempts to make her a proper lady. She is happy as a tomboy, & befriends Sapphire. She has no intention of marrying Prince Franz. But both DD & the Hells continue in their plans for their children's futures.

So, Tenma, once he realizes that Atom has worth, decides to use him; this after having recognized his error & taken it out on Tokugawa by making Daichi with Atlas inside. At this point, it seems that he had repented of his selfishness; but once he sees how Atom fares against Atlas, he becomes lost again in his ambitions.

Anyway, in the 2003 series, Tenma most definitely is Atom's antagonist; though in the earlier versions, he sometimes helps him. He seems to have gone insane by the episode with the freezing robots, and certainly is a true villain from then on.

[Prettywitchiusaka]

No, I didn't find Tenma to be a villain either in the 80's series. Granted, I've only seen the first few episodes of that show, but I defenitely agree with you there Forever. If anything, he seems less psychotic there and more so in denial; trying desperately to prove to himself and others that Astro is Tobio. It just finally comes to aboil when Astro emberasses him, and even then, he goes to apologize to him. It's just given Astros' naivety, and Hamegg's clever tactics, he's too late to do so.

Jeffbert
I would defenitely agree, but I would also add that he feels justified in what he's doing with the venus Robots to a point. I say that due to something the dub left out that I rather like. When Ochanomizu declares that he's insane, Tenma responds with the following response in the Japanese version; "No, I am the GOD of the robot world". Again, it doesn't excuse the fact that he's attempting to commit mass manslaughter, but it goes a long way in showing his thought process regarding what he views his role as.

[jeffbert]

I think that may refer to his abilities as a robotocist, but clearly, he was acting like a homicidal maniac. It is possible for one to be brilliant, but wacko in reference to some particular thing; this is called monomania.

[Prettywitchiusaka]

Oh, I know. I'm just saying that it falls in line with the idea that everything he does, he treats like his actions are justified, even if it involves attempted homocide on a mass scale like in that episode.