How much of Astor/Tobio is inside Astro?

[StellDream]

Originally posted by DrFrag@Apr 22 2005, 04:16 PM


Is that right?
(I haven't seen the end of the 2003 series)

A long time ago (half a year ago) £¬My works

£¨Complete Fu is shut the original work , £©


AstroboyµÄ¹ÊÊÂ

(±¾Îĸù¾Ý2003°æ¡¶Astroboy¡·µÚ50¼¯"×îºóµÄ¶Ô¾ö"(´ó½á¾Ö)¸Ä±à)

ÔÚ¿Æѧʡ´óÂ¥µÄµØÏÂÊÒÀï,ÓÐÒ»¸ö¾Þ´óµÄÈÛ¯.´Ë¿Ì,TemmaÀ´µ½ÁËÕâ¸öÈÛ¯µÄÌìÇÅÉÏÃæ.¿´×ÅÏÂÃæ·ÐÌڵĸÖË®,˼ÐøÍòǧ:"Ò»Çж¼¸Ã½áÊøÁË,¹ÊÊ´ÓÕâÀ￪ʼ,Ò²½«ÔÚÕâÀï½áÊø."
ÊǵÄ,AstroboyµÄ¹ÊÊÂÊÇ´ÓÕâÀ￪ʼµÄ.
¶àÄêÒÔÇ°,ÔÚTOBIOµÄ9ËêÉúÈÕÄÇÌì,Ò»ÏòÊǸö¹¤×÷¿ñµÄTemma,ÖÕÓÚ´ðÓ¦Á˶ù×Ó,ÅãTOBIO¹ý
ÕâÒ»Ìì,²¢´øËûµ½¿Æѧʡȥ²Î¹Û.
"ÎÒ²»Ó¦¸Ã´øTOBIOµ½ÕâÀïÀ´µÄ".TemmaÍ´¿àµÄ»ØÏëÆðÁ˹ýÈ¥.
"°Ö°Ö,ÕâÊÇʲôµØ·½?"TOBIOÆæ¹ÖµÄÎÊTemma,ÑÛÇ°µÄ¾°ÏñÁîËû¾ªÆæ:Ê®¼¸Ìõ´«ËÍ´ø²»Í£µÄÔËÐÐ,°ÑÒ»¶Ñ¶ÑµÄ¶«Î÷µ¹½øÌìÇÅÏÂÃæµÄÈÛ¯ÖÐ.
"ÕâÊÇ»úÆ÷ÈË´¦ÀíÖÐÐÄ,ËùÓеķϾɻúÆ÷ÈËÔÚÕâÀï±»²ð½â,È»ºóÈÓ½øÕâ¸ö¯ÖÐÈÛ»¯.ÄÇЩ´«ËÍ´øÉϵĶ«Î÷,¾ÍÊDZ»²ð½âµÄ»úÆ÷ÈË".
"ËùÓеĻúÆ÷ÈË!ÄÇô,ÎÒÃǼҵÄÂÞ²®ÌØÒÔºóÒ²Òª±»ËÍÀ´ÕâÀïÂð?"
"ÊǵÄ,¶øÇÒÊÇÃ÷Ìì,"TemmaÂþ²»¾­ÐĵÄ˵,"ÒòΪ½ñÌìÎÒÂòÁ˸öеĻúÆ÷ÈË,×÷ΪË͸øÄãµÄÉúÈÕÀñÎï".
"²»",TOBIO´óÉùº°µÀ"°Ö°Ö,Ϊʲô²»ÒªÂÞ²®ÌØ?ÎÒÒªËü,"
"ÒòΪÂÞ²®ÌØÒÑÊÇÀÏÐͺÅÁË,¸ÃÌÔÌ­ÁË".
"²»,°Ö°Ö,ÎÒÖ»ÒªÂÞ²®ÌØ,ÎÒ²»Òª±ðµÄ»úÆ÷ÈË".
"TOBIO,ÂÞ²®ÌØÖ»ÊÇ̨»úÆ÷,ÐÂÐͺŽ«±ÈËû¸üÏȽø,¸üÌÖÈËϲ»¶".
"
"²»"TOBIO¿à¿à°§Çó,È»¶øTemmaºÁ²»¶¯ÈÝ.TOBIOÖÕÓÚËÀÐÄÁË."°Ö°Ö,Äã²¢²»°®ÎÒ,Äã°®µÄÖ»ÊÇ»úÆ÷".TOBIO¿Þº°×Å,¶À×ÔÅÜÁ˳öÈ¥.
TemmaÒ»Õú,ת¶øÓÖÏëÁËÒ»ÏÂ:"ûʲô,Ã÷ÌìËû¾Í»áϲ»¶ÐµĻúÆ÷È˵Ä".

È»¶ø,ÄÇÒ»ÌìTemmaÓÀԶûÓеÈÀ´.

TOBIOÔÚ±¯Í´ÖÐÅܳöÁË¿Æѧʡ.×øÉÏÁË·ÉÐÐ×ÔÐгµ,³å½øÁËÒ»Ìõ½»Í¨ËìµÀÖÐ.ÖÐ;,Ò»Á¾Æû³µÓ­Í·³åÁ˹ýÀ´.....

"ʲô?"Ò»ÉùÇéÌìÅùö¨,ÔÚTemmaÍ·ÉÏÕ¨Ïì.
Temma¸Ïµ½ÁËʹÊÏÖ³¡,µ«Ò»Çж¼Ì«³ÙÁË.Temma±§ÆðËÀÈ¥µÄTOBIO,ÑöÌìÍ´¿Þ"TOBIO......

Temma¿´×ÅÇÅϵÄÈÛ¯,ÄÇЩ»úÆ÷È˱»ÈÛ½âºó,ÓÖÖØÐÂ×ö³ÉÁË»úÆ÷ÈË."TOBIO,ÎÒÒ»¶¨ÒªÈÃÄãÖØÉú".TemmaÔÚÐÄÖз¢ÊÄ.

ÓÚÊÇ,Ò»¸öÃûΪ"TOBIO"µÄ»úÆ÷ÈËÖÆÔì¼Æ»®²úÉúÁË.





°¢Í¯Ä¾Õ¾ÔÚµçÌÝÀï,µçÌÝÔØ×ÅËûϽµ,Ò»Ö±µ½´ï¿ÆѧʡµØÏÂÉî´¦µÄÈÛ¯.

"ÌìÂí²©Ê¿½ÐÎÒµ½ÕâÀïÀ´,ËûÏë¸ÉʲôÄØ?"°¢Í¯Ä¾Ïë."ÎÒ¼ÇÆðÀ´ÁË,ÎÒÔø¾­À´¹ýÕâÀï,ÊǺÍTemma²©Ê¿".

ÔÚ¾­¹ý³¤Ê±¼äµÄ¹¤×÷ºó."TOBIO¼Æ»®"ÖÕÓÚÍê³É.еÄTOBIOµ®ÉúÁË.ËƺõTemma²©Ê¿ÎªÁËÃÖ²¹¹ýȥûÓÐÀ´µÃ¼°ÌÛ°®TOBIOµÄÒź³.¶Ô»úÆ÷ÈËTOBIOÌÛ°®ÓмÓ,×ÜÊÇ»¨ºÜ¶àʱ¼ä±¶°é"TOBIO",¶È¹ýÁËÒ»¶ÎÃÀºÃµÄʱ¹â.

"È»¶øºÃʱ¹â×ÜÊDz»³¤¾ÃµÄ",TemmaÍ´¿àµÄÏë×Å."±¾À´ÎҾͷ¸Á˸ö´íÎó,´ø¶ù×ÓÀ´ÕâÀï,µ«ÎÒ¾¹È»ÓÖ·¸ÁËͬһ¸ö´íÎó,¾ÓÈ»°Ñ°¢Í¯Ä¾Ò²´øµ½ÕâÀïÀ´²Î¹Û".

ºóÃæÔ¶´¦µÄÃÅ´ò¿ªÁË.°¢Í¯Ä¾À´ÁË.

"°¢Í¯Ä¾,ÎÒ½ÐÄãÀ´ ,ÊÇÒªÈÃÊÂÇéÓиöÁ˽áÁË"Temma.×óÊÖ¾ÙÆðÁËÒ»¸ö¶«Î÷.°¢Í¯Ä¾ÓÃ̽²âÑÛɨÃèÁËÒ»ÏÂ,¾¹È»ÊÇһöըµ¯!
"Temma²©Ê¿,ÄãÏë¸Éʲô?".°¢Í¯Ä¾±ßÏòÇ°±ßÎÊ.
"±ð¹ýÀ´,Õâöըµ¯µôµ½µØÉϾͻᱬը".µ«°¢Í¯Ä¾Ã»ÓÐÍ£ÏÂÀ´.TemmaÓÒÊÖÒ»»Î,ÌͳöÒ»¸öÔ²»·.°¢Í¯Ä¾Í£ÁËÏÂÀ´,ËûÈϳöÁËTemmaÊÖÖеÄÔ²»·ÊÇʲô¶«Î÷,²¢¼ÇÆðÁË´ÓÇ°µÄÊÂÇé.ÄǸöÔ²»·,ÊÇÒ»¸öÄÜ°Ñ»úÆ÷È˵ÄÄÜÔ´³¹µ×¶á×ßµÄÎäÆ÷.ÄÇÒ»Ìì,ÌìÂí¾ÍÊÇÓÃÕâ¸öÔ²»·Îü×ß°¢Í¯Ä¾µÄÄÜÔ´,´Ó´Ëʧ×Ù.
µ«°¢Í¯Ä¾ÓÖÏòÇ°Âõ²½.Ô²»··¢³öÒ»µÀÉÁµç,°¢Í¯Ä¾±»»÷µ¹ÔÚµØÉÏ.
"°¢Í¯Ä¾,ÎÒµ±³õÅ×ÆúÄã,ÊÇÒòΪÄãÁîÎҸе½¿Ö¾å."Temma»º»ºËµµ½.




ÔÚÒòΪÕе½Temma²©Ê¿µÄ»úÆ÷¹·µÄ¹¥»÷¶øÐÜÐÜȼÉյĿÆѧʡ´óÂ¥Íâ,²èË®Ðļ±Èç·Ù."°¢Í¯Ä¾»¹ÔÚÀïÃæÄØ!"²èË®²¦½Å¾ÍÍùÀï³å.ÅԱߵÄÈËÏë×èÀ¹."ΣÏÕ,»ðÔ½À´Ô½ÃÍÁË".²èË®²»Àí,ÅÜÁ˽øÈ¥.
±»»÷µ¹µÄ°¢Í¯Ä¾ÓÖÕ¾ÁËÆðÀ´,¼èÄѵÄÏòTemma²©Ê¿×ßÈ¥.ºöÈ»,Ò»Éù¾ÞÏì,°¢Í¯Ä¾ºóÃæµÄÇŶÏÁÑÁË.TemmaÈÓ³öÁËÊÖÖеÄÕ¨µ¯.°¢Í¯Ä¾¼±Ã¦½Óס,ÓÒÊÖÊÖÖ¸·¢³öÒ»Êø¼¤¹â,Õ¨µ¯±»²ð³ýÁË.

"ûÓÐÓõÄ,Ò»Çж¼»á½áÊø,"TemmaÄüЦµÀ."ÔÚ½áÊø֮ǰ,ÎÒÒªÈÃÄãÖªµÀ,ÎÒÊǶàô°®ÄãµÄ".

ʱ¼ä»Øµ½¹ýÈ¥.ÔÚ¾Þ´óµÄÈÛ¯ÉÏÃæ,°¢Í¯Ä¾ÎÊ°Ö°Ö:"ΪʲôҪ²ð»Ù»úÆ÷ÈË,ΪʲôҪÕâÑù¶Ô´ý»úÆ÷ÈË?

ÌìÂíÀäÀäµØ»Ø´ð:"ÒòΪËüÃÇûÓÃÁË".

"²»ÒªÕâÑù,¿ìÍ£ÏÂ".°¢Í¯Ä¾°§ÇóTemma."TOBIO,ÄãÒªÌý»°"."²»"°¢Í¯Ä¾´óº°×Å,ÆËÏòÁË´«ËÍ´ø.....

Ò»Éù¾ÞÏì,´«ËÍ´ø±»Õ¨»Ù!°¢Í¯Ä¾Ò²µ¹ÔÚÁË·ÏÐæÖ®ÖÐ!

"ÄÇʱ,ÎҸоõµ½ÄãÊǸö¶ñħ".Temma˵µÀ,Ëû¿´µ½ÁË´Ó·ÏÐæÖÐÅÀÆðÀ´µÄ°¢Í¯Ä¾,Á½Ñ۷ųö¿Éŵĺì¹â."»úÆ÷È˱¾À´Ó¦¸ÃÊÇÍêÈ«·þ´ÓÈËÀàµÄ,µ«ÄÇһ˲¼ä,ÎÒ·¢ÏÖÊÂʵ²¢·ÇÈç´Ë,ÎÒÖÆÔì³öÁËÒ»¸ö²¢²»ÍêÈ«·þ´ÓÈËÀàµÄ»úÆ÷ÈË.ÒÔºóÓֻᷢÉúʲôÊÂÄØ?"

"»úÆ÷ÈË»á½ø»¯,×îÖջᷢÉúʲôÊÂÄØ?Ö§ÅäÈËÀà,¶Ô.ÎÒ¾ø²»ÄÜÈÃÕâÖÖÊ·¢Éú".TemmaÌͳöÔ²»·,Ì×ÔÚ°¢Í¯Ä¾µÄ²±×ÓÉÏ,¶á×ßÁËËûµÄÄÜÔ´.ͬʱ¿ªÊ¼ÁË´ß»ÙÐж¯,°ÑºÍ"TOBIO"¼Æ»®ÓйصÄÒ»Çж«Î÷ÆÆ»µ.TemmaÃ÷°×ÕâÊÇ·¸×ï.ÆÆ»µÍêºó,¾Íʧ×ÙÁË.

Ô²»·ÓַųöÒ»µÀÉÁµç,ÔٴΰѰ¢Í¯Ä¾»÷µ¹,µ«°¢Í¯Ä¾ÔÙ´ÎÅÀÁËÆðÀ´.

"¿ªÊ¼,ÎÒÏë°ÑÄãÒ²Ïú»ÙÁË,µ«ºóÀ´,ÎÒÓÖÏë¿´µ½,»úÆ÷È˽ø»¯ºó,»áÔõÑù.µ±ÎÒÖªµÀ²èË®°ÑÄ㻽ÐѺó,ÎҾ;ö¶¨,Óø÷ÖÖ·½·¨¿¼ÑéÄã,¼ÓËÙÄãµÄ½ø»¯,ÎÒÒªÖªµÀÄã»á±ä³ÉʲôÑù×ÓµÄ,ÁíÒ»·½Ãæ,ÎÒÒÀÈ»¶ÔÄãÓиÐÇé".TemmaÓÖÒ»´Î°Ñ°¢Í¯Ä¾»÷µ¹.

"ÏÖÔÚÎÒÖªµÀÁË,ÄãÒѳÉÁËÒ»¸öÊÀ½çÉÏ×îÓÅÐãµÄ»úÆ÷ÈË,ÎÒΪÄã¶ø½¾°Á.ÎÒÕâô×ö,»¹ÒòΪÎÒÊÇ°®ÄãµÄ,Ï£ÍûÄãÄܳÉΪ×îÇ¿µÄ»úÆ÷ÈË.ÏÖÔÚ,Ò»Çж¼ÈçÎÒËùÁÏ.ÄãÒѽø³ÉΪһ¸öÄÜÖ§ÅäÈËÀàµÄ»úÆ÷ÈË,ÎÒÒ²¿ÉÒÔ·ÅÐÄÀ뿪Õâ¸öÊÀ½çÁË".Temma´óЦ×Å,µ«Ð¦ÉùÀïÈ´°üº¬×ÅËá³þ.

"²»"°¢Í¯Ä¾´óº°×Å."Äã²¢²»°®ÎÒ,Äã´ÓÀ´¾Íû°®¹ýÎÒ.ÄãÖ»ÊÇ°ÑÎÒµ±³ÉʵÏÖÄãµÄÓûÍûµÄ¹¤¾ß.²»¹ÜÎÒÊǸöÈ˵Äʱºò,»¹ÊÇÎÒ±ä³É»úÆ÷ÈËÒÔºó,Ä㶼ûÓа®¹ýÎÒ".

TemmaÄ¿µÉ¿Ú´ô.°¢Í¯Ä¾Ò»²½²½×ß¹ýÀ´.µ«TemmaÔÙҲûÓÐÓÂÆøʹÓÃÔ²»·.
°¢Í¯Ä¾×ß¹ýÀ´,Æ˽øTemmaµÄ»³Àï.ÇáÉù˵µÀ:"°Ö°Ö,ÇóÇóÄã²»ÒªËÀ."

Ô²»·´ÓTemmaÊÖÖеôÂä,µôÔÚµØÉÏˤËéÁË.

´Ëʱ,²èË®¸Ïµ½ÁË.Ëû´óº°×Å"°¢Í¯Ä¾",×ÝÉíÌø¹ýÁ˶ÏÇÅ.

¿´µ½²èË®ÉáËÀÍüÉúµÄÌø¹ý¶ÏÇÅ.TemmaºöÈ»Ã÷°×ÁË.TemmaµÍÏÂÍ·,±§×Å»³ÀïµÄ°¢Í¯Ä¾Ëµ:"°¢Í¯Ä¾,ÎÒ²»Åä×öÄãµÄ°Ö°Ö,Ö»ÓÐËû,²èË®²©Ê¿,²ÅÊÇ×îÊʺÏ×öÄãµÄ°Ö°Ö".

ÌìÇűÀËú,Á½¸ö»úÆ÷¾¯²ìÕýºÃ¸Ïµ½,½ÓסÁ˲èË®ºÍ.Temma....

¡¶»úÆ÷ÈËÈËȨÐûÑÔ¡·ÖÕÓÚͨ¹ýÁË.°¢Í¯Ä¾Õ¾Ôڻ᳡¹ýµÀÀï,º¬Ð¦¿´×ÅËûµÄ°Ö°Ö¡ª¡ª²èË®²©Ê¿Ðû¶Á¾öÒé.

°¢Í¯Ä¾×ß³ö»á³¡,À´µ½¿Æѧʡ´óÂ¥µÄÂ¥¶¥,×øÔÚÄÇÀï¿´×ÅÌì¿ÕµÄÔƲÊ.ºöÈ»,Éíºó´«À´ÐúÄÖÉù,°¢Í¯Ä¾»ØÍ·Ò»¿´,ÊÇËûµÄͬѧºÍËûµÄÃÃÃÃ.

"¸ç¸ç,ÎÒÃÇÖÕÓÚʵÏÖÁË×Ô¼ºµÄÃÎÏë".

Uran:" the elder brother, we realized one's own dream at last ".

"²»,ÎÒÃǵÄÃÎÏë¸Õ¸Õ¿ªÊ¼"!
Astroboy:""no, our dream has just begun "!

[StellDream]

²èË®²«Ê¿=Doctor Tea=Doctor Elefun
°¢Í¯Ä¾=ASTROBOY
Doctor Elefun Chinese name £º²èË®²«Ê¿
ASTROBOY Chinese name £º°¢Í¯Ä¾
°¢=A
ͯ=Children
ľ=Wood
¿É°®=Lovely

[O2Destroyer]

The one thing that always got me was how they kept Tobio's dog (in the 80's series anyway). Given that Astro can't remember Tobio and apparently forgets Tenma as well, the dog is really the only thing which ties Astro to his past. I wish they had found a way to do more with this, especially given how the idea of robots keeping dogs is really kind of strange to begin with.

[tinlunlau]

Originally posted by StellDream@Apr 23 2005, 10:33 AM
²èË®²«Ê¿=Doctor Tea=Doctor Elefun
°¢Í¯Ä¾=ASTROBOY
Doctor Elefun Chinese name £º²èË®²«Ê¿
ASTROBOY Chinese name £º°¢Í¯Ä¾
°¢=A
ͯ=Children
ľ=Wood
¿É°®=Lovely

why'd ya forget to mention that 亞童木 is basically just a chinese way to calling Atom?

"Ah-Tung-Mu"

and "Cha Shui Bok Si" is basically a direct translation of Ochanomizu (tea water)

[Saint Atom]

::::SPOILER ALERT::::::well one cant forget about Tenma's plans in the manga and how they inspired his actions in the 03 anime. after astro died in "The Blue Knight" Tenma was the only man alive who could rebuild astro. He forced the ministry to scrap astro's family before he repaired him and then took him to his secret lab. Tenma then professed his desires for a society ruled by robots, the perfect beings, with astro ruling as the king. When Astro is rebuilt he rebels against Tenma and Ochanomizu. He saves his family and he and Uran eventually end up in africa where astro turns back to his normal self and tenma discovers meeva, a boy who can bring things from the past. Tenma realizes a robot society is impossible and he instead just wants to live the rest of his life with a new astro, taken from the past so Tenma can have a second chance at raising him(this says a lot about Tenma because he is choosing his robot substitute over his flesh and blood son Tobio, whom he could have brought back with meevas ability).The plan fails when astro's mind is switched with the one taken from the past thus destroying Tenmas plans for a clean slate. This is where the pivotal part comes in. Astro returns to his family and goes to bed. While asleep Tenma drives his car into Astro's house and tells his parents that Astro is rightfully his and he will raise him from now on because he is his true father. Astro's parents do not back down, not even by Tenma's threats to gun them to death. Tenma sees how much the two care for Astro and decides that Astro is better off without him. Astro, who was awake the whole time and looking through his door, feels sorry for Tenma and saves him as he is attacked by meevas owners.

I'm not sure what happened of the two's relationship but I thot the story was quite interesting in how it showed Tenma as a mad and greedy man who really just turned out to be longing for a son that won't leave him the way Tobio did.

Also in the 80s series when Kathy is rubbing Astros eyes at the robot circus Astro says he remembers someone else rubbing his eyes who was always there for him. it is unlikely he is talking about Tenma during their short stay together so it may imply that he has some of tobios memories

[Astro Forever]

Also in the 80s series when Kathy is rubbing Astros eyes at the robot circus Astro says he remembers someone else rubbing his eyes who was always there for him. it is unlikely he is talking about Tenma during their short stay together so it may imply that he has some of tobios memories

That's what I wondered too.

Welcome!

[jeffbert]

False memories & identity loss are used in more than a few robot stories. I am working on a chapter for a book right now, & must reserve my knowledge for that.

[Prettywitchiusaka]

Yes, I know this is an old topic. But I can't help but want to include my two-sense in here if that's okay.

To get on the subject matter of how much of Tobio is in Astro, I think that there isn't too many similarities. In my mind, Astro and Tobio are seperate beings. Given the 03 series, there is a slight connection, but I think that has more to do with their personalities being similar than anything else. Other than that, Tobio is Tobio, and Astro is Astro.

As for Tenma's neglect, to be honest, I honestly feel that he does love his son. If anything, he just goes about it very selfishly. Though in my mind, this makes perfect sense for Tenma's character as depicted in the 03 series. He wants to be a good father to hsi precious son, but is far too selfish and passionate about his ideals to ever truly let go of them entirely. And in all honesty, I actually rather like this because it makes him more human; after all, there are people like that in real life.

As for why Tenma wants Astro be King of Robots, well I have my own theory on that. I believe that Tenma's reasoning is because he thinks that this will allow him to be Astro's father again. I mean let's face it, after being rejected by Astro, Tenma probably felt he had no place left in the world any longer. As a result, he probably figured that if he could get Astro's faith in humanity to decline, than eventually he would come back to him, and they would be together forever in Tenma's "iedalic" little world.

[AprilSeven]

if it would be possible to "download" memories . . . and maybe there IS some validity to it - people who have received organs from donors have been known to have personality shifts that reflect the donor's personality . . . then it would seem very reasonable that

Astro could possess much of Tobio's personality = BUT

Astro's "programming" could alter a significant amount of Tobio's "flaws" (arrogance, anger, etc.) and enhance his "good" qualities (bright, curious, affectionate) - therefore

Astro could be seen as an "idealized" version of Tobio - but not necessarily a "real" human, because humans are flawed.